Minutes of the January, 2015 Heralds Meeting

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MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – January 4, 2015 (10:00 am to 1:40 pm)

The meeting was held at the Sacramento Crowne Plaza Hotel (5321 Date Avenue, Sacramento California 95841. In general, all future meetings will be held at Green Crown’s home (564 Broadmoor Blvd., San Leandro, CA 94577; email greencrown@heralds.westkingdom.org for directions). Meetings begin at 11AM, with walk-in processing no later than 10:30AM. “Road show” meetings, if any, will be announced well in advance.

Frederick of Holland, Vesper; Krysta of Starfall, Green Crown; eilis o’boirne, Banner; Hirsch von Henford, Golem; Dafydd Waleis, Nebuly P. and CoH Exchequer; Caolinn Rose Maddox, Sable Swan; Anne FitzRichard, Seawolf; Michael of the Shire, Sable Swan deputy; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Black Mark P.; Irina Antonova zhena Barsuka, P. for Darkwood; Maxen ap Morgen, Darth P.; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, PaL; Kean de Lacey, PaL; Moira O’Connor, PaL; Alizan de la Fontaine, PaL; Matilda Fitz Richard, PaL; Danae FitzRoberts, PEaL; Bevin ingen Conner, cornet; Emma Fitzwilliam, Cornet; Carrick MacBrian, awesome research aide; Katherine Gotehird, groupie; Sarah Joyal, interested bystander.

Heralds’ Meetings for 2015 and early 2016: March 22, May 17, July 12, September 20, November 15 (the day after Herald’s Collegium), January 3, 2016 (tentative based on 12th Night). Meetings will start at 11 AM.

Walk-in submissions may be held over until the following meeting at the discretion of Matins.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com. This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.


Vesper: Seeking a candidate for successor. He would like someone start training now, to take over in a year or more. Andrewe Baldywyn, Laurel King of Arms was at 12th Night. He spent some time with Senior Staff. The West Kingdom College of Heralds is doing well, and has a good handle on what trouble spots need attention.  He was here mostly to experience the event and to broaden his knowledge of the differences and similarities between kingdoms. Roster letters are going out in a month or so. Recruiting is important.

Seawolf: Is actively seeking a successor, she needs to step down at May Investiture. Events are great and she can still help but she is going back to school, so no longer has the bandwidth for the position.

Sable Swan: Micheal of the Shire is stepping up as sable swan in three weeks. He has been actively working as Sable Swan deputy for the last four months. Sable Swan is working on the final update of the ceremony book. It will be sent to Golem and Banner.

Stellanordica: no report

Exchequer: Caolinn, prior Exchequer, has turned over the job to Dafydd. Dafydd has been warranted by the Kingdom Exchequer, and is working with Aldith, Vesper, and Green Crown to update the signature cards at the bank.

Matins (vacant - Green Crown reporting): Submissions processing continues, with only a small hiccup in transfer of incoming documents to Green Crown from prior Matins. Green Crown is seeking to train a new Matins by this time next year. Please contact Vesper and Green Crown if you are interested. Morwenna of Tintagel is acting as acceptance letter drafting assistant for LoARs; Green Crown intends for her to expand to assisting with LoAR returns, and then to submissions meeting Kingdom returns, as she learns more about what is needed in such letters. Communications between the Matins Office and Golem are good; the Minutes are current on the website.

Green Crown: Communication between Green Crown and Vesper is good; we are taking steps to insure that Vesper’s emergency deputy can step up should the need arise. Meetings and discussion with Andrewe, Laurel King of Arms were very productive.

Banner: This year’s project is to complete the ceremony book revision to include ceremony updates, missing ceremonies and short versions of ceremonies that are used more than once per court

Baldric: (absent – Banner reported) There is a date on the calendar, February 7th, for the next Heraldic Collegiom. We are hoping to focus on introductory topics, voice and court this time. There is no site yet; we are looking for somewhere in the Sacramento area.

Brachet: (absent – no report)

Greencloak: (absent – no report) Moira filled in for Greencloak at 12th Night

Latimer: (excused absence)

Golem: Court reports are mostly good. The database is in good shape. The website has been updated with the correct links to the Laurel Office webpages. If there are other problems please let him know. If there are errors let him know.

ANNOUNCEMENTS / Other Business

Laurel requires now 0 (zero) paper submissions – we need only one copy and Matins doesn’t mail anything to Laurel, just sends scans. Effective immediately we will only require from submitters:

Name submission: one copy and documentation
Device submission: one line drawing, one colored drawing, with documentation if needed
Badge submission: one line drawing, one colored drawing, documentation as needed
Money: $10 for name+device or name+badge, $6 for individual submissions.

Colored submissions are still required to be hand colored using markers, not crayons or pencils, and must be colored with “quality markers” so colors don’t change; we encourage the use of Crayola Classic markers. If the submission is not colored in true colors, the College is required to send it back.



VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Vesper at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm.

The office of Brachet Herald was filled as of the September meeting; no commenting meetings are being held, but Brachet is brainstorming to try to do e-meetings. More news soon.


The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

October 2014 LoAR (printed December 13, 2014) (31 July 2014 West LoI)

Cover letter

From Wreath: Commenting and Conflict Checking

Conflict is the most frequent cause for armory return, and often easy to miss. We would like to ask commenters to remember to state, either with each submission or as a comment on the entire letter, whether they have checked each submission and specify if they found any conflicts. A simple "No conflicts found" or equivalent phrasing is perfectly sufficient. For completeness, we ask that those who are discussing style or other non-conflict issues also conflict check the submission and mention the result of that check, even when the other issues may cause a return.

From Pelican: Unpublished Sources and Documentation Marked Private

Recently, we've seen commentary stating that unpublished sources and items marked private in OSCAR cannot be used as documentation. This is not true. As mentioned in the September 2014 Cover Letter, only certain OSCAR users have the permissions to see the entire packet. We mark some documents private in order to safeguard personally identifiable information like legal names and dates of birth. The Sovereigns of Arms, Laurel staff members, Principal Heralds, and Submissions Heralds are able to view these materials. In other words, just because you can't see something doesn't mean that no one else can. Similarly, we routinely use sources and information not present in the Letter of Intent and commentary in order to make our decisions. Some of this research is provided directly by staff, found during the decision meeting, or located by the Sovereigns of Arms. We try to identify such external sources in the Letters of Acceptances and Returns if they had a bearing on a decision.

In the case of unpublished works, we scrutinize them just like any other source. Whether or not a source is considered to be reliable depends on several factors, not the least of which is the quality of past books or articles by the same author. As long as the required copies are provided for sources not yet readily available to the general public, we will continue to evaluate the information as we normally do, and will not treat these sources differently from ones already in print.

West Acceptances - October LoAR

Aaliz de Saint-Joseph. Name.

Conall Ó Coiligh. Name and device. Azure, issuant from a fess wavy argent, a demi-sun Or.

Submitted as Conall O'Coigligh, the byname combined the Anglicized Irish O' with the Gaelic Coigligh. We have changed the byname to Ó Coiligh to make it wholly Gaelic.

The submitter has permission to conflict with the registered Conall Ó Cellaigh. Ó Cellaigh is generally Anglicized as O Kelly. The form Ó Coigligh is Anglicized as O Quigley, O Kegl(e)y, and O Cogl(e)y, among other forms. The typical pronunciation (O Quigley) would be sufficiently different in sound and appearance under SENA, but the O Kegly/O Kegley pronunciation shows that there are pronunciations where the difference is not substantial. Therefore, the name requires permission to conflict in order to be registered.

This device is not in conflict with the device of Gwen Hir, Azure, a fess fusilly argent. There is a DC for the addition of the sun and a DC for the difference between fusilly and wavy.

Douglas Archer. Reblazon of device. Sable chaussé Or, a chevron counterchanged between three pheons argent.

Originally blazoned in November 1980 as Or, on a pile throughout sable, overall a chevron counterchanged between three pheons argent. and reblazoned in September 1986 as Or, on a pile throughout sable, three pheons argent, overall a chevron counterchanged, the depiction is of a chaussé field division rather than of a pile throughout.

Eirene Dalassene. Name and device. Gules, two hares rampant addorsed argent each maintaining a halberd sable, a bordure argent goutty de sang.

Submitted as Irene Dalassene, the submitter requested authenticity for a 7th-11th century Byzantine name. Metron Ariston noted that Irene is the standard modern English form of the Greek Eirene. We have changed the given name to the Greek form in order to register the name, as the Anglicized form is not compatible with the Greek byname.

This name is clear of the registered Helene Dalassene. Eirene is pronounced ay-re-nay, whereas Helene is pronounced something like he-le-nay in this case, or with two syllables. Therefore, either two syllables have changed under PN3C1 of SENA, or one has been added under PN3C2.

Please advise the submitter to draw the gouttes wavy, in a more period style with a wavier tail.

Gaufrid Falcun. Name and device. Per pale argent goutty de sang and sable semy of decrescents argent, a falcon close regardant gules.

Gaufrid was documented in the Letter of Intent as a vernacular form of the attested Gaufridi and Gaufrido. In commentary, Blue Tyger documented the submitted form to c.1439 (Middle English Dictionary).

A precedent from 1983 stated:

[Returning Or, two piles and a pile inverted sable, semé of mullets and crescents argent.] NOTE: We do not use semé of more than one type of charge. [James de Burget, May 1983, R-Meridies]

In commentary, Non Scripta supplied multiple examples of field strewn with two types of charges. Therefore, we are explicitely overturning the May 1983 precedent.

Lasairfhiona MacCraith. Name and device. Vert, a domestic cat rampant between three triquetras argent.

This name combines a Gaelic given name and Scots byname. This is an acceptable lingual mix under Appendix C of SENA.

Magnus Mackintosh. Name.

Marjorie de ffeyrefeld. Device. Per pale and per chevron sable and argent, three lozenges counterchanged.

Skj{o,}ldr Galti. Name and device. Vert, a sea-boar between three thorn runes Or.

Vera Veshniakova. Device. Argent, a roc volant wings addorsed maintaining with its feet an elephant sable within eight roses in annulo alternately sable and gules.

William Hauke of Effingham. Device change. Quarterly gules and sable, a bordure argent semy of hawks striking gules.

His old device, Quarterly gules and sable, a bordure argent semy of hawks rising contourny gules, is released.

West Returns - October LoAR


In Service,
Krysta of Starfall,
Green Crown Pursuivant

SUBMISSONS – November (2014)


Blase di Angelo (NEW badge -name registered 2006 CAID)

Gules, an amphora within a mascle Or.
Badge appears to be clear of conflict.

Brodie MacMorrough (RESUB device returned at Kingdom, Name in process)

Argent, a lion on a chief embattled gules a sword fesswise reversed argent
Device appears to be clear of conflict. Submitter’s original submission was Argent, a lion gules between two triquetra each interlaced with an annulet sable, on a chief embattled gules a sword fesswise reversed argent. The sable charges were not blazonable as drawn. He has removed them. (see November 2014 minutes)

Cathal Maclae (NEW name, NEW device)

Per pall Or, gules and sable, a pall argent between an owl displayed rising azure and two single-bitted axes addorsed Or.
Cares most about: sound (not defined); Gender: male

Submitter entered “Mclae” on the first line of the name form, but then provides documentation for the spellings MACLAE and and spells his surname “Maclae” on the device submission form. We believe the omitted “A” is a typo.

Cathal – Found in “100 Most Popular Men’s Names in Early Medieval Ireland” by Tangwystyl verch Morgan Glasvren; http://heraldry.sca.org/names/irish100.html

Maclae – The Surnames of Scotland (Black), p.533 shows M’clay, MacClay and MacLay dated to 1584; On FamilySearch.org we find Effie Maclae, mother of Willem Moresone who was christened 16 Sep 1649; North Leith, Midlothian, Scotland (batch C19506-1) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTRP-82Y

We would appreciate some help from the College of Arms commenters with either a later anglicized Irish (or other compatible) citation for Cathal, or an earlier Scots gaelic citation to form the simple patronymic Maclae/MacClay etc.

This device has a complexity count of eight and a SFPP count of one, for the displayed owl. The addorsed axes are also marginal design, but not in violation of SENA as best we can tell. Device appears to be clear of conflict.

Christopher Ephesou (NEW name)

Will not accept MAJOR changes. Important: meaning (Christopher from Ephesus); Gender: male (Consulting Herald – James of the Lake, CAID)

Submitter supplied no copies of cited documentation, and submission form is dated October 2006 and for the Kingdom of Caid. We did not find this reason for return at Kingdom.

Christopher – Reaney and Wilson (3rd Ed.) p.96; also supplied a URL that leads nowhere. Searching on the document “title” PLRE_masc_names.html, I found http://heraldry.sca.org/names/byzantine/PLRE_masc_names.html which shows Christophorus, not Christopher.

Ephesou – Locative surname found in Lemprieres, p.225, meaning of/from Ephesus; http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n94002559.html shows “Ioasaph, Ephesou”; Strong’s Concordance (Acts 18:21); and http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/byzantine-philosophy/ which states, in part, “This is the standard type of so-called ‘exegetical commentary’ typified by Alexander of Aphrodisias and cultivated in Byzantine times by Michael of Ephesus and Eustratios of Nicaea in the early 12th century.”

We would really appreciate the College of Arms commenters help in documenting Christopher in a language group compatible with Greek, or, since the submitter will accept minor changes, opinions as to which is the “less major” change to meet the submitter’s requested importance of “meaning”: Christopher of Ephesus, or Christophorus Ephesou.

Cynthia Fayrfax (NEW name, NEW device)

Or, a wingless dragon passant to sinister sable.
Important - Language and/or culture: 16th C English; Gender: female

Cynthia – full text of Academy of St. Gabriel report 1690 supplied by submitter http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1690+0, which states, in part, “…However, in the 13th century <Cynthia> appears in English as one of many variant spellings of the Provencal name <Sanchia>. In 1243 Richard of Cornwall married a daughter of the Count of Provence named <Sanchia>, and after that <Sanchia> appeared in a variety of spellings, including <Cynthia>, <Scientia>, and <Science>. Later spellings include <Sens>, <Sence>, <Sense>, <Saints>, and <Sanche>. [2,3] You could use <Cynthia> as an English variant of <Sanchia> for a persona who lived roughly between 1250 and 1350, or as the name of a person who lived after 1550.”

Fayrfax – byname found in Names from 15th Century York by Karen Larsdatter (Karen Harris) http://heraldry.sca.org/names/york15/index.htm between Fayrepoynt and Feiffer.

The English name formation [given + byname] is shown in Appendix A in SENA. Armory:
Submitter first choice design, Or, a wingless dragon passant sable, is in conflict with Sabrina Morna; The following badge associated with this name was registered in January of 1999 (via Atenveldt): Or, a wingless wyvern statant, tail ending in a cinquefoil purpure.

Turning the dragon to sinister clears this conflict, and no other conflicts were found. (A dragon “segreant” is rampant, wings addorsed, which is its default posture; wingless dragons cannot be “segreant”).

Danaë FitzRoberts (transfer of registered badge - release)

This name was registered in April of 1998 (via the West).

The following badge associated with this name was registered in February of 2004 (via the West): Azure, a castle issuant from base argent within a bordure argent mullety of eight points vert.

We received, and have included, the letter requesting transfer of this badge from Danaë FitzRoberts to Moira O’Connor. Said letter also shows acceptance of the transfer by Moira.

Diana Listmaker (Request for correction of Blazon)

Vert, a cross gules fimbriated argent, overall a Pegasus segreant argent, in canton an increscent Or.
Diana’s current entry in the SCA O and A database reads: Diana Listmaker Either the name or the following device associated it (or both) were registered in January of 1973: Vert, on a cross argent, a cross gules, overall a pegasus argent and in canton an increscent Or.

The original “submission notes,” which are included with this request, clearly show that her pegasus is and has always been segreant. Since there is no defined “default” for this charge, the position must be blazoned.

We request the blazon of the cross be changed to “gules fimbriated argent” to better reflect current blazon language and the way she actually displays the Arms (see included photos of several of her banners).

Note: Image 1 is the original submission "form" and should claim highest precedence. In it the pegasus is clearly blazoned as "rampant" and the cross is clearly noted as "red outlined in white".  The fourth image is of a banner constructed in late AS 1 or early AS 2, and predates the formation of the College of Arms. The variations in the orientation of the crescent on the actual banners carry no weight in considering the submission.


Jeronimus von Wallenfels (NEW name)

Important: sound (not defined); Gender: male

Jeronimus – found in “German Names from Nurnberg 1497,” http://heraldry.sca.org/names/german/nurnberg1497.html

von – German locative article

Wallenfels – found in German Place Names from a 16th C Czech Register: Medieval to Modern index, by Aryanhwy merch Catmael http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/periodmodern.html#W

The German name formation [given name +locative article+ locative byname] is shown in Appendix A in SENA.

Lei Shou (NEW device – resub to Kingdom with LoPtC; name in process)

Per pale sable and gules, a fox queued of nine tails sejant contourny Or.
Device is in conflict with Sara of Salaparuta (Sept. 2014, East): Per pale sable and vert, a talbot sejant contourny Or collared gules maintaining a roundel Or (no difference granted for number of tails, cited December 2009). Letter of permission to conflict attached.

Moira O’Connor (transfer of registered badge - acceptance)

Carol Whitney, moira@evenstarkeep.org

Azure, a castle issuant from base argent within a bordure argent mullety of eight points vert.

Letter accepting transfer of this registered badge from Danaë FitzRoberts.


Cemper Ysolt y Breoniann (NEW name Returned – no docs submitted)

Gender: Don’t Care

Cemperhttps://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQWQ-6M6 Batch I00642-9 shows Cemper as a late period English surname (…pistyan Cemper, born 08 Aug 1572; father Robert Cemper; Littlebourne, Kent, England). Under the Alton of Grimfells decision, such surnames can be used as given names.

Ysolt – need documentation

y – not compatible with the form of the given name (under Alton of Grimfells) – too early period

Breoniann – need documentation

eilis plans to consult with Cemper at Oertha Coronet/Investiture later this month and we will be able to consider a complete name and device submission from her in March.

Hans Shaffer (NEW device returned – resub at Kingdom; Name submitted November 2014)

Per bend sinister vert and sable, a three headed talbot rampant to sinister argent.
Admin return – no line drawing; still in conflict with Judith.

Submitter was informed via consultation letter after the November 2014 meeting to correct the head position of the center head, and to change the per bend sinister embattled line of division to a plain per bend division to clear the conflict. The head position is now better, but the redrawn picture was sent in on the same form, leaving a vestigial “embattled” in the proposed blazon area, and was still per bend SINISTER. The field division must be per bend to clear the conflict with Judith. Submitter also failed to supply a completed device form with a line drawing of the submitted device.

Labhrann MacIlleDhuinn (NEW name returned)

Submitter supplied no documentation; submission arrived after the deadline for this meeting.

Important: language and/or culture (not defined); Gender: male; Requested authenticity for Scottish Gaelic 11th – 14th C.

Labhrann – we were unable to document Labhrann in any language.

MacIlleDhuinn – We found MacIlleDhuinn in Black, p. 512 with a dated citation of John Makildoun to 1608. Mac’ille dhuinn is the derivation of the name, however, and not a cited example.

Since we were unable to find the given name (or anything like it) in any of our name resources, we cannot help with it’s authenticity. Submitter will be asked to clarify his desire regarding the given name, and we will reconsider this at the March meeting.

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