Minutes of the November, 2013 Heralds Meeting

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Start: 1:00 pm; End: 3:30 pm

The meeting was held at the home of Eilis O'Boirne in Berkeley, CA. In general, all future meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings, if any, will be announced well in advance.

Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Frederick of Holland, Compline; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Matins; Eilis o’Boirne, Baldric; Krysta of Starfall, Green Crown; Anne Fitz Richard, Seawolf; Mikael Auraprester, PEaL; Michel von Schiltach, PEaL.

Heralds’ Meetings for the remainder of 2013: No meeting in December, Jan 5, 2014 (road show at 12th Night - Concord Hilton).

Walk-in submissions will be held over until the following month unless they arrive early enough to be processed in before the scheduled start of the meeting.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.



Vesper: Frederick of Holland is now Compline, and will step up as Vesper at 12th Night. The Heralds Symposium scheduled for February needs PR (and a confirmed site); Laurel (and possibly staff) are planning to attend. Eilis will take over Banner at 12th Night. Meetings will now be every other month: January 5; March 9; May 11; July 13; September 21; November 16.

Compline: Frederick will step up as Vesper at 12th Night.

Seawolf: Court occurred. People were out sick.

Sable Swan: October Coronet was at the end of last month. I wish to thank Katrina Yarborough and Moira for stepping up to cover for me when I got sick. You all rock! We are still working on the checking all the ceremonies to be sure they are correct.

Stellanordica: We're working on getting a new herald in Selviergard after their incumbent passed away unexpectedly. I posted an advertisement for the open Wolfhound deputy and received one volunteer, Khevron Vorotnikov. All is well.

Exchequer: We have money.

Banner: Eilis will take over Banner as of 12th Night.

Baldric: Antonio will step up as Baldric as of 12th Night. There is a Heraldic Collegium scheduled for February 8. A site is being arranged.

Brachet: Vacant

Greencloak: Warlord Madness (So. Shores/Westermark): Taught a voice heraldry class at Madness. One student from that class successfully heralded the small tournament that afternoon under supervision.

October Crown: We had more than enough voices and several trainees who did very well. Several experienced heralds returned to the field after a long absence, including Sir Conall Eoin MacTavish, Sir Colin MacLear, and, most notably, Sir Magnus Arktos, one of my predecessors in this office.

Green Cloak is looking for a successor. One person has expressed interest. Are there others?

Latimer: The Consultation Table was at both October Crown and Cynagua Coronet and had several clients at both. The next Consultation Table event will be March Crown


The next Known World Heralds and Scribes Symposium will be held in the Kingdom of Caid (specifically Las Vegas, NV) on the weekend of 13-15 June 2014.


VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

The office of Brachet is currently vacant, no Brachet meetings are being held.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astrið of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .


The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

September LoAR (sent November 6, 2013)

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (An Ongoing Series)

In recent months, we have discussed Eastern European naming practices. This month, I am discussing Polish names. Polish is most closely related to Czech and Slovak; we label those three and related languages the North Slavic regional naming group in Appendix C of SENA.

Poland has a complicated history, and has over time included many areas that are not part of modern Poland. From the 14th century until well after 1600, Poland was part of a union with Lithuania (see the Cover Letter from July 2013 for more information about Lithuania). But the area in which Polish was dominant historically is mostly covered by modern Poland.

The simplest and most typical structure for a Polish name is to a given name followed by a relationship byname formed from a relative's given name, usually the father's name. For women, it could also be constructed from a husband's name. Luckily, our most readily available sources are all lists of given names, making it relatively simple to construct a full name.

First, we have "Polish Given Names in Nazwiska Polak{o'}w" by Walraven van Nijmegen and Arval Benicoeur (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/walraven/polish/). This article provides an undated list of given names "reverse engineered" from relationship bynames. For dated lists of given names, we have "Polish Feminine Given Names, 1600-1650" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/polish/polishfem.html), and Lillia de Vaux, "A Preliminary Survey of Names from the Historical Dictionary of Personal Names in Bia{l/}ystok" from the 2011 KWHSS Proceedings (http://st-walburga.aspiringluddite.com/docs/Bialystok.pdf). The latter includes male and female given names mostly dating from c1450 to 1650, and discusses basic construction of relationship bynames.

Patronyms can be marked or--for men only--unmarked. Marking in Polish is accomplished in several ways. For men, the suffix -wic(z)/-wicc can be added to the father's given name (e.g., Andrzeiewicz), or syn "son" can be added before the father's full name (Jeromin syn Wojciecha Klepacskiego). In addition, a diminutive suffix, -ik/-yk can be added to the father's given name (Krystoncyk "Little Krystyn"). Women in period always bear feminized bynames formed by adding a suffix to their father or husband's given name or surname. Married women generally use the suffix -owa or -ina/-yna (Jakubowa and Czayczyna), and unmarried women -owna or -anka (Falkowna and Kisczanka). Which suffix is used depends on the relationship and the ending of the name being modified. Widows are often identified with wdowa before the patronymic byname. Unfortunately in many cases, the woman's own given name is not known, as only the feminized bynames are recorded. Such a name would not be registerable in the SCA, as our standards require a given name.

Locative surnames are either formed by using a genitive (possessive) form of the place name with the preposition z, or by using an adjectival form (ending in -ski for men or -ska for women). Descriptive, toponymic, and occupational bynames are also attested, and can be feminized just as the other types of bynames. In addition, Latinized given names and locative bynames, and particles like filius are appropriate for our period, even when combined with Polish surnames. Name patterns include double given names (for men), and double and triple bynames. However, it is not always clear if the second given name is a true given name or an unmarked patronym. Women with multiple bynames generally bear their maiden name and married name, with or without a locative.

From Pelican: Reconsidering Mac and Mc (and ending up at the same place)

In September 2007, Pelican ruled that Mc and M' were scribal abbreviations for Mac and hence unregisterable. Since then, we have found considerable quantities of new Scots language and Anglicized Irish data. Thus, we revisited the question of whether Mc was only an abbreviation through 1600, or if it had begun to take on life as an independent element. Alys Mackyntoich did considerable research in the Records of the Parliaments of Scotland, all of which suggested that Mc remained a variant of (and presumably abbreviation of) Mac until after the end of our period. Thus, we will not change precedent: both Mc and M' will be expanded to Mac for registration purposes. Individuals with names expanded to Mac should of course feel free to use abbreviated forms like Mc and M' as documentary forms of their name.

From Wreath: Bordures -- Can You Really Be Too Thin?

One of the tenets of good heraldic art is often quoted as "big, bold, and butch." While for the most part this is entirely true, bordures in period heraldry were drawn with a variety of widths. Other ordinaries, even when uncharged, are nearly always drawn quite thick, but perhaps because of their placement around the edge of the design bordures simply don't have to try as hard to be properly noticed. Some examples of rather thin bordures:

On the other hand, heralds do need to be aware that some armorials, such as the 15th century German Ortenburger Wappenbuch, BSB Cod.icon.308u, use thin white frames around every piece of armory, as a matter of decoration. These are not bordures, and should not be used in documentation of an Individually Attested Pattern as such. For am example, see f.3r (http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00001755/image_7).

In general, only when a bordure could be confused with a thick outline of the escutcheon, or when any charges on it are hard to identify, is it too thin. We will continue to register thin bordures without comment.

From Laurel & Wreath: No More Paper!

On the July 2013 Cover Letter, we noted that only one physical copy of the colored armory submission form needed to be sent to Ragged Staff. In our further attempts to reduce the amount of paper at the Society level, we are eliminating this last physical copy. As usual, all submission forms and associated documentation, letters, and so forth must be scanned and uploaded into OSCAR by the packet due deadline.

West Acceptances

Aodhán Ó Ceallaigh. Name.

Submitted as Áedán ó Cellaig, the submitter requested authenticity for 13th-16th century Irish. The form appropriate for that period is Aodhán Ó Ceallaigh. We have changed the name to that form in order to meet the submitter's request.

The submitter may want to know that the submitted form mixes early and late spellings in the element ó Cellaig; this mix violates PN.1.B.1, which requires a name phrase to follow the standards of a particular time and place. The form of the name suitable for before 1200 is Áedán ua Cellaig. If the submitter prefers that form, he may make a request for reconsideration.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin. Reblazon of device. Argent, a cross formy sable.

Blazoned when registered in January 1973 as Argent, a cross patty sable, we no longer use the term patty as it is ambiguous.

Étaín du Pommier. Device change. Per saltire Or and sable, four trefoils counterchanged.

Her previous device, Per saltire Or and sable, a pomegranate gules slipped and leaved vert between four trefoils counterchanged, is retained as a badge.

Nice device!

James Bacon. Device. Purpure, a polypus between three roundels argent.

Morgana di Marco Vecchietti. Name and device. Per bend sinister vert and Or, two fleurs-de-lys and a bordure counterchanged.

Morgana was documented as a literary name. Aryanhwy merch Catmael notes that it appeared in 16th century Rome as a woman's name (in her "Names from an Early 16th C Census of Rome," http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/leox-census.html).

The submitter requested authenticity for 15th to 16th century Italian. With this new documentation for the given name, this name meets that request.

Robert d'Audrieu. Device. Counter-ermine, on a pale argent two ravens sable.

Nice device!

Tama Katerina Evstokh'eva. Name change from Katerina Evstokh'eva.

The submitter's previous name, Katerina Evstokh'eva, is retained as an alternate name.

Thorir Kraki. Name.

The submitter requested authenticity for 9th century Norse. Both elements are found in the Icelandic Landnamabok, which includes 9th and 10th century names. Thus, we can confirm that the name is suitable for sometime in that period, but cannot be more specific.

West Returns

Elizabeth Margarete. Device. Per chevron dovetailed Or and purpure, two hummingbirds hovering respectant and a dragon rampant counterchanged.

This device is returned for a redraw, for violating the guidelines set forth on the May 2011 Cover Letter for a properly drawn per chevron field division; the field division here is too low. Please see that Cover Letter for further discussion and details of how to properly draw per chevron lines of division.

There is a step from period practice for the use of hummingbirds, a New World bird.

Please advise the submitter, upon resubmission, to draw the line of division with fewer and larger dovetails.

In Service,
Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym ap Morgan o Erryrys,
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 24 November, XLVIII (2013)


Gregor Hawke – Resubmission of device to Kingdom; name submitted July 2013 LoI

Per pale embattled Or and azure, a hawk’s head erased and two caltrops in pale counterchanged.
Device STILL appears clear of conflict (researched 7/13). The Hawk’s head is clearly now a head.

Kathryn Onora – Resubmission of device to Kingdom; name submitted September 2013 LoI

Argent, in saltire a bow sable and a needle sable threaded gules, a gore vert ermined argent.
Device STILL appears clear of conflict (researched 9/13). The needle and bow are now clearly in saltire.


Hrafna-Kara – New badge; name submitted September 2013 LoI

(Fieldless) on a Raven close sable (unblazonable 3-horn thing) argent.
The charge on the raven is not blazonable. If the badge documents are resubmitted with either 2a or 3a (3a for preference) quickly it can be sent to Laurel; those are clear of conflict at this time.

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