Minutes of the November, 2012 Heralds Meeting

Click here for a Printer Friendly (Black and White) version
Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page


MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 11 November XLVII (2012)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 11 November 2012. The meeting started at XXPM and ended at XXPM. In attendance at this meeting were: Frederick of Holland, Pursuivant at Large; Owen ap Morgan, Pursuivant at Large; Astrid of Swansvale, Latimer; Caoimhín o Fiodhabrha, Pursuivant at Large; Caoilinn Rose Maddox, Exchequer/Sable Swan; Eilis o’Boirne, Baldric; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Green Cloak; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet and (Acting) Matins; & Moira O’Connor, Vesper.

COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
December (no meeting), January 6, 2013, February 10, March 17, April 21, May 19, June 16, KWHSS – June 28-30.

The meeting was held at the home of Eilis O'Boirne in Berkeley, CA. In general, all future meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings, if any, will be announced well in advance.

Walk-in submissions will be held over until the following month unless they arrive early enough to be processed in before the scheduled start of the meeting. This policy is subject to change when the new Matins takes over.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.

PERSONNEL -- RECENT CHANGES AND POSITIONS AVAILABLE:


REPORTS

The notes taken regarding officer reports are missing.


ANNOUNCEMENTS

SUBMISSIONS GUIDELINES
UPCOMING EVENTS
The next Known World Heralds and Scribes Symposium will be held in the Barony of Bjornsborg in the Kingdom of Ansteorra (San Antonio, Texas) on June 28-30, 2013. More information to follow.

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

BRACHET MEETINGS
The office of Brachet is currently vacant, no Brachet meetings are being held.

EAST BAY COMMENTING MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astrið of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .


EXCERPTS FROM THE LOAR

The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

August 2012 LoAR (2 Oct 2012) (May 2012 LoI)

Cover letter

From Pelican and Wreath: Submissions Analysis for August

During this transition period, we are sharing our counts of the results of considering submissions this month under both the Rules for Submissions and the Standards for Evaluation. These counts include registered or returned items only; no administrative actions such as transfers or acceptances, associations of existing armory, heraldic wills, or other such letters will be included in these counts.

"Armory style" and "armory conflict" indicate if a submitted item could only be passed under one rule set or the other due to conflict or style issues. For example, a submission that could not be registered under the old rules due to conflict but could be registered without conflict under the new standards will be counted as "passed under the new standards, but not old" as armory conflict.

If math is not your thing, it may be interesting to note that if all submissions were considered only under the Rules for Submissions, there would be an 82% success rate. Considered only under the Standards for Evaluation, there would be an 85% success rate.

From Pelican: Avoiding the Appearance of Presumption on Important Non-SCA Individuals

This month, we were asked to consider whether James Cook Sinistre created an inappropriate presumption on the 18th century explorer James Cook (often known simply as Captain Cook).

In June 2004, Laurel ruled that the name Haroun al-Rashid the Toe Mangler presumes on the non-SCA protected person Haroun al-Rashid, despite the addition of a byname. Haroun al-Rashid is a very famous medieval Arab caliph. This decision parallels the kind of super-protection we offer to mundane knightly orders and SCA peerage orders: you cannot register Order of the Blue Pelican or Order of the Laurel and Garter, although the addition of an element would normally clear conflict.

This decision regarding personal names stands alone; it has not been upheld with other examples and no other personal name has been similarly super-protected. Other than in this decision, precedent says that the addition of an element that distinguishes the submission from the protected person is sufficient to clear conflict or presumption. Adding an element like of Calais clears the presumption on the name of Henry Tudor as he would not have been identified that way, while the addition of the element of England would not, as he might have been known as Henry Tudor of England.

Creating two kinds of protection, so that presumption on some mundane names cannot be cleared by the addition of another element, while presumption on others can be cleared by the addition of another element, would create additional uncertainty for submitters as well as for heralds.

Therefore, we overturn this 2004 decision regarding presumption: the addition of another element which distinguishes the submitted name from the protected one clears presumption. (We note that this was only one reason for the return of the name, and that the byname the Toe Mangler would still require further documentation).

From Pelican: New Da'ud Notation

This month we had to designate Da'ud notation for a new letter. In Middle High German, {u!} indicates a u with a single up and down vertical mark over it (as opposed to an acute or grave accent). This letter is referred to in unicode as Latin Lowercase U with Vertical Line Above, which has been proposed by the Medieval Unicode Font Initiative (http://www.mufi.info) as code point E724 and with html entity &uvertline;.

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (an Ongoing Series)

Last month, I asked whether we should continue to register matronymic bynames in Gaelic. This month, I'm going to talk about matronymic bynames more broadly. Matronymic (or metronymic - they mean the same thing) bynames are names that say who your mother is. They are less common everywhere in Europe than patronymic bynames, which say who your father is. This is true even in places that reckon inheritance matrilineally: the Pictish names we have as well as other early names from the British Isles all have patronymic bynames but not matronymic bynames. (For the data I'm basing this on, see Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn's "A Consideration of Pictish Names" http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/pictnames/ and her "The First Thousand Years of British Names" http://www.heatherrosejones.com/names/welsh/1000british/)

Despite the European bias toward patronymic bynames, matronymic bynames are found in many languages in our period. English has substantial numbers of matronymic bynames, mostly unmarked like Hugh Margarete (dated to 1273 in Bardsley s.n. Margaret). However, marked forms are also found, like Tomas filius Rose or Johanna Rosedoghter (dated to 1279 and 1397 respectively in Reaney and Wilson s.n. Rose and introduction, p. li).

Elsewhere in the British Isles, matronymic bynames are rare. Matronymic bynames are found occasionally in Scotland; all the examples I know are unmarked or use the Scots -son. The evidence for matronymics in Gaelic was discussed last month; basically they are only found as additional descriptions, rather than as solo bynames. In medieval Welsh, matronymics never rise to more than 1% of bynames, but are found in any sizable dataset. They are always single bynames, not found in multiple generation bynames.

Matronymic bynames are not infrequently found in French and German. In French, matronymic bynames are usually unmarked (like patronymic bynames). In the 1292 Paris census, the byname Aales and Barbe are two examples (taken from Aryanhwy merch Catmael "Names in the 1292 census of Paris"). In German, both unmarked and marked examples are found: Dietrich Elisabet (dated to 1289 in Bahlow s.n. Elisabeth), Arnold Ittensun (dated to 1300 in Bahlow s.n. It(t)ensohn), and Henneke Katerinen son (dated to 1336 in Bahlow s.n. Katerina).

Dutch matronymic bynames are quite rare, but found both in Aryanhwy merch Catmael's "Dutch Names, 1358-1361" http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/dutch/earlydutch14.html and her 15th Century Dutch Names http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/dutch/dutch15.html).

In Scandinavia, matronymic bynames (always using a form of son or daughter) are rare, but found. The Viking Answer Lady says that 34 men in Old Norse Iceland were known as their mother's sons. Matronymics are found in medieval Scandinavia as well. Examples are found in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, though they become less common by the 16th century (Between Betrothal and Bedding: Marriage Formation in Sweden 1200-1600 by Mia Korpiola Kingship and State Formation in Sweden, 1130-1290 by Philip Line).

Next month, we'll continue this discussion with matronymic bynames in southern Europe, the Middle East, and the little we know about Eastern Europe.

From Wreath: Birds, Briefly

This month we explicitly ruled that generic birds fit into the "regular-shaped" bird category as set forth on the November 2003 Cover Letter.

West Kingdom acceptances

Arianwen ferch Morgan. Device. Per pale azure and argent all semy of roses counterchanged.
Nice device!

Enoch Bailey. Name and device. Azure, on a keystone Or a pheon inverted gules, a chief enarched Or.

Nice late period English name!

Commenters discussed whether or not this was an appropriate depiction of a keystone, or perhaps some other charge. We do find similar-appearing charges in period armory, notably in the canting arms of da Cunha; the Portuguese word cunha best translates as simply wedge, and the charge in question is undoubtedly wedge-shaped. While a cunha may or may not represent a keystone, as opposed to some other sort of wedge, the term wedge in English armory appears to refer to something rather more pointed, akin to a nail or a pile couped. Therefore, we are defining a keystone in Society armory as any isosceles trapezoid with a wider top than bottom. Notched keystones remain a step from period practice.

Ingriðr Rauðkinn. Name and device. Bendy sinister gules and argent, a phoenix sable rising from flames Or and a bordure sable.

Appearing on the Letter of Intent as Ingriðr rauðkinn, when kingdom made necessary changes (to match the documentation found), they also changed the byname to lowercase. In April 2012, we ruled that descriptive bynames in Old Norse may be registered in either lowercase or with the first letter capitalized. Therefore we have restored the submitted capitalization.

Kirk FitzDavid. Reblazon of device. Sable, a triskelion arrondi and on a chief indented argent three Oriental abacuses sable.

Blazoned when registered in January 1988 as Sable, a triskelion arrondy and on a chief indented argent three abaci sable, we are clarifying the type of abacus.

Lucius Cassius Maris. Name.

Submitted as Lucius Cassius Marius, this name was a resubmission from a kingdom return. That previous submission, Lucius Cassius Maris, was returned because commenters could not find evidence that Maris was a documented cognomen. Eastern Crown was able to document both Marius and Maris as cognomens, so both submissions are registerable. The submitter indicated he preferred the original submission, so we have made that change in order to meet his request.

Meuric Penvelyn. Name and device. Argent semy of acorns inverted, a chevron vert between three crows sable.

The submitter requested authenticity for Welsh. The given name was documented as a 13th century name, while the byname was not justified for a period before the mid-14th century. Therefore we cannot confirm that this name is authentic for a particular time in Welsh.

Commenters provided extensive evidence of the pattern "A central ordinary, a secondary charge group around the ordinary (numbered charges), and another secondary charge group (semy)." This pattern will be added to Appendix J of the Standards for Evaluation as a documented charge group design.

Nathan Hartman. Name and device. Quarterly sable and azure, a cross parted and fretted argent.

This device is not in conflict with the device of Alister Stewart, Quarterly sable and azure, on a cross argent three triskeles in fess sable. Under both the Rules for Submissions and the Standards for Evaluation, there is a CD/DC for removing the tertiary charge group, and another CD/DC for the difference between a plain cross and a cross parted and fretted.

Sadb ingen Aedáin. Name.

Walter Faversham. Reblazon of device. Per chevron embattled argent and vert, two wooden abacuses proper beaded sable and a thunderbolt Or.

Blazoned when registered in August 1980 as Per chevron embattled argent and vert, two walnut abaci with ebony beads proper and a thunderbolt Or, we are clarifying the type of abacus.

West returns

None.

September 2012 LoAR (3 Nov 2012)

From Laurel: Heraldic Wills

From Laurel: Updates to the Admin Handbook and Standards for Evaluation

Please note the following changes to the Admin Handbook and the Standards for Evaluation of Names and Armory. These changes were proposed on the June 30, 2012, Palimpsest Rules Letter.

Admin Handbook V.B.2.g., Correction of Errors, currently reads:

g. Correction of Errors - A designated preparer of a letter of intent may correct errors in a submission after a letter of intent is finalized by clicking on the link labelled "CORRECT" after the submission. Corrections should only be made when information necessary for the College of Arms to provide adequate commentary or for the item to be ruled upon is missing or incorrect; otherwise, changes should not be made. If a significant period of time elapses between the letter of intent and the correction, the corrected submissions may be pended until a later meeting.

Effective immediately, we are changing this to read:

g. Correction of Errors - A designated preparer of a letter of intent may correct errors in a submission after a letter of intent is finalized by clicking on the link labelled "CORRECT" after the submission. Corrections should only be made when information necessary for the College of Arms to provide adequate commentary or for the item to be ruled upon is missing or incorrect; otherwise, changes should not be made. If a significant period of time elapses between the letter of intent and the correction, the corrected submissions may be pended until a later meeting. If an emblazon image is completely incorrect, it may be replaced within seven days of the publication of the Letter of Intent with a correction noting the replacement. After seven days or if the correction is a redraw of the original emblazon, the associated armorial item should be withdrawn using a correction to the original item and then resubmitted on a new Letter of Intent.

Standards for Evaluation of Names and Armory PN.2.C., currently reads, in part:

In addition, the name as a whole must follow a period pattern for personal names. Any name must follow the pattern described in one of the two sections below.

Effective immediately, we are changing this portion to read:

In addition, the name as a whole must follow a period pattern for personal names. Any name must follow the pattern described in one of the two sections below; for the purposes of this section, name phrases documented under the Lingua Anglica allowance in PN.1.B.2.c above are considered equivalent in date and language to the untranslated name element.

Standards for Evaluation of Names and Armory A., currently reads, in part:

To be registered, an armorial submission must meet the following standards:

Effective immediately, we are changing this portion to read:

To be registered, an armorial submission must meet the following standards:

From Palimpsest and Pelican: Mismatches in Appendix C

A couple enterprising heralds pointed out to me that there were further mismatches in Appendix C of SENA beyond the two repaired in the June 2012 Cover Letter. After consultation with Pelican, it is clear that in all cases of mismatch, they should be resolved by making them compatible in both directions. Appendix C has been updated to resolve all the mismatches.

For reference, the updates are as follows (all are listed by Regional Group name): Hungarian/Romanian is added as compatible to German and South Slavic for both 550-1100 and 1100-1600; Mongol is added as compatible to Arabic, Hungarian/Romanian, Russian/East Slavic, and Turkish for 1100-1600; Persian is added as compatible to Arabic and Turkish for 1100-1600; and Turkish is added as compatible to Italian for 1100-1600.

Please note that these compatibilities were already listed in Appendix C in the other direction; their omission was an oversight uncaught in proofreading.

From Pelican and Wreath: Submissions Analysis for September

During this transition period, we are sharing our counts of the results of considering submissions this month under both the Rules for Submissions and the Standards for Evaluation. These counts include registered or returned items only; no administrative actions such as transfers or acceptances, associations of existing armory, heraldic wills, or other such letters will be included in these counts.

"Armory style" and "armory conflict" indicate if a submitted item could only be passed under one rule set or the other due to conflict or style issues. For example, a submission that could not be registered under the old rules due to conflict but could be registered without conflict under the new standards will be counted as "passed under the new standards, but not old" as armory conflict.

If math is not your thing, it may be interesting to note that if all submissions were considered only under the Rules for Submissions, there would be a 91% success rate. Considered only under the Standards for Evaluation, there would be a 92% success rate.

From Pelican: Late Period English Given Names Derived from Family Names

For the last two years, we have registered given names derived from late period English family names, based on a well attested pattern. Commenters have provided dozens of examples of this pattern for masculine names, as well as several examples of this pattern for feminine names (including Smith as a feminine given name). These examples are found both in the IGI index and in Withycombe, which mentions a grey period example of a woman named Essex.

Various commenters have called for us to restrict the registration of these given names to submissions that are completely late period English names. However, this limitation would be a sharp departure from current policy.

First, we would have no grounds to place this limitation on attested given names, which would include Smith, Leach, White, Bainbridge, Guildford, and Richardson, among others. A system which would allow Smith as a given name to be registered more easily than Ashley would create confusion. Second, by long precedent we treat constructed name elements exactly as attested ones. Therefore, we will continue to register these constructed given names in any context suitable for an attested late period English given name.

We note that this pattern has not been documented in Scotland or Ireland. As such, family names only found in Scotland and Ireland cannot be used to create given names. However, many family names spread from Scotland and Ireland into England. In general, family names documented in sixteenth century England may be used to create given names, even if they are of Scottish or Gaelic origin.

From Pelican: About Using the IGI (International Genealogical Index) Search Forms

As most of you doubtless know, the IGI (International Genealogical Index) website is in a state of flux. At this time, Edelweiss' IGI Parish Records search does not work; this will continue until he is sure that they will not be making additional changes. This means that it is harder to find appropriate citations.

If you use the IGI search directly from the familysearch.org site, you must use caution. First, we recommend you limit your search to IGI records, which you can do at:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi

(this site has worked only intermittently). You should limit it to the Indexed IGI. If you use another interface, be aware that most items will not be appropriate for our purposes. Whatever the source, you must make sure that the batch number indicates that the records are from an extraction program and that the source of the records is acceptable. A description of the batch numbers can be found at:

https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/IGI_Batch_Number_Descriptions

In general batches beginning with C, J, K, M (except M17 and M18), or P are acceptable. If you use another batch, please address why you believe it to be a period spelling of the name. For example, I batches are taken from indices created at various points in the past. Thus, some names in this batch are normalized, and earlier indexes may reflect out of date scholarship. When citing an IGI record be sure to include the batch number.

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (a series)

Last month, we discussed matronymic bynames from northern Europe. This month we're continuing the tour. We'll continue this discussion with matronymic bynames in southern Europe, the Middle East, and the little we know about Eastern Europe.

On the Iberian Peninsula, there are a few relatively early examples of literal matronymics in Spanish and Catalan. They are found either as unmarked name elements like Maria Teresa or as descriptions like Johan, fijo de Toda Soriana. However, these names did not survive to create family names. In sixteenth century Portuguese, on the other hand, unmarked matronymics like Lianor, Maria, and Antonia (all from Aryanhwy merch Catmael "Portuguese Names from Lisbon, 1565." Literal matronymics are also found in Basque country, in forms like those found elsewhere in the Iberian Peninsula. Karen Larsdatter (in "Basque Onomastics of the Eighth to Sixteenth Centuries") reports a c. 1200 Urraquarena that may be an inherited matronymic byname; other examples follow Spanish or Catalan patterns.

Literal matronymic bynames are found in Italian, taking the form di Francesca or di Monna Angela. A few of them become family names: Giovannella or Pera. However, they are not common.

Matronymic bynames are rare in Arabic, but we have found dozens of examples. The information we have is found in "Son of the Hot-Tempered Woman" (http://medievalscotland.org/jes/ArabicMatronymics/). The notable thing is that these matronymics are found only alone or as family names which can follow a literal patronymic byname.

Our data from Eastern Europe is scanty, which means that lack of data for matronymic bynames is not conclusive. We know that there are matronymic bynames in late period Hungary; details can be found in the Academy of Saint Gabriel report 2956 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/2956). Matronymic bynames are also found in Russian (see Paul Wickenden's Dictionary of Russian Names http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html for more details). I do not currently know of matronymic bynames in other Eastern European languages, but that may be due to a lack of data.

From Wreath: Unity of Posture Revisited

Precedent set on the May 2012 Cover Letter would have us consult Appendix L to determine if the charges in a mixed-type charge group have comparable postures. This may not always be adequate. Sea-creatures and similar monsters are generally composed of the front half of a quadruped combined with the back half of a fish or wyvern; their default posture is erect, which in this case is equivalent to rampant or sejant erect. They may also be statant or passant, and, possibly, sejant.

For purposes of the unity of posture clause of A3D2c, sea-creatures and other similar monsters must be in as similar a posture as possible to any quadrupeds in the same group. Sea-creatures and other monsters not formed from quadrupeds will be decided on a case by case basis. So for example, a lion-dragon passant and a horse passant has no unity of posture problem since both are passant, whereas a sea-horse and a lion statant does have a unity of posture problem, as a sea-horse's default posture is erect, which is not identical to statant.

From Wreath: On Lotuses

The issue of whether or not the use of a lotus should be a step from period practice has been raised several times recently. While the modern association of a lotus is with the South Asian flower, the lotus motif in art is well known in both Egyptian and Islamic art, and certainly the Greeks and Romans wrote about a flower they called a lotus. The Indian lotus flower is today understood to be distinct from the European water lily, also known as lotus. The white waterlily, or white lotus as it is commonly known, is native to Europe. As the two flowers look alike, and both are known colloquially as a lotus, we will assume it is the European flower that is being referred to in blazon. To be clear, the use of a lotus is not a step from period practice.

The leaves of the water lily are not infrequently found in period European armory. To avoid confusion, we prefer to use the term water lily for the plant itself, and lotus, or water lily blossom, for just the flower.

West Kingdom acceptances

None.

West Kingdom returns

None.

In Service,
Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym ap Morgan o Erryrys,
Matins Herald


SUBMISSONS – 11 November, XLVII (2012)

ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL

Brigid O'Connor - Resub Device to Laurel

Argent, a wolf sejant ululant sable, in chief three quatrefoils purpure.
Device appears to be clear this time.


Catriona Morgan – New Device (Resub Device to Kingdom)

Argent, a heart and a bordure purpure.
Previously submitted as “a Celtic knotwork heart.” She reused the forms from her previous submission and simply colored over the white spaces within the heart to make it a solid tincture. This works. The device appears clear of conflict.


Kalista Kulinova - New Name & New Device

Gules, in cross two compass stars elongated to base and two bears statant respectant argent.
Submitter desires a feminine name.

Submitted as Kalista Kullinova - changed to match her documentation.

Kulin - Wickenden, A Dictionary of Period Russian Names, 3rd ed., header spelling dated to 1222. Kulinova is the standard patronymic form for a daughter.

Kalista -Wickenden, A Dictionary of Period Russian Names, 3rd ed., documents Kalist to before 1200. Kallist (with two ls) is listed as a martyr, died 847. Kalista (header spelling),gives the meaning of this feminine name as "wonderful" and states that it is feminine form of Kalist.

The device appears clear.


Myfanwy verch Dafydd ap Madoc – New Name (Resub of Name to Kingdom) & New Device
Argent, an ivy vine palewise vert and a gore sable.
Submitter desires a feminine name.
Sound most important.

Myfanwy is the standard modern spelling of a period feminine Welsh given name However, it has specifically been ruled acceptable for use in the SCA.

Verch is a spelling of the Welsh feminine patronymic marker valid for use pretty much throughout the SCA period.

Dafydd -"Snapshop of a Cantref: The Names and Naming Practices in a Mawddwy Court Roll of 1415-16" by Heather Rose Jones (a usually reliable source for Welsh naming practices per the prior Matins) http://heatherrosejones.com/names/welsh/mawddwy1415.html. As Harpy states in her commentary on Dafydd ap Alun, "[t]he reference to "Dafydd" in the Mawddwy article is for the header form, not for a citation from the source (as the article clearly states). (The spelling found in the source is "Dauid", along with various diminutives.) Dafydd is the standard modern spelling of the name and would be plausible in late period, however finding an actual pre-1600 citation of this spelling might be difficult due to the tendency for high-frequency names that had English forms to be rendered in late period in their English forms even when written in an otherwise Welsh-language text." [Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Harpy) at 2008-12-04 00:13:28 (commentary on Dafydd ap Alun (Aug. 2009 Ealdormere), on the Ealdormere LoI for November 2008)]

Ap is a spelling of the Welsh masculine patronymic marker valid for use pretty much throughout the SCA period.

Madoc is a period spelling from Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Welsh Names on the Laurel website.

The device appears clear.


ITEMS RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK

None.


Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page