Minutes of the January, 2012 Heralds Meeting

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The meeting was held on Sunday, 8 January 2012, at 12th Night. The meeting started at 10:40AM and ended at 1:20PM. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Green Cloak; Astrið of Swansvale, Latimer; Hirsch von Henford, Golem; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, Exchequer; Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, Harpy; Caoilinn Rose Maddox, Sable Swan; Ana Maria de Acosta, Deputy Exchequer; Matilda FitzRichard, Nebuly; Jared of Castlewood, Pinnacle; Frederick of Holland, PaL; Na’arah bat Avraham, PaL; Alizan De la Fontaine, PaL; Anne FitzRichard, PEaL; Danaë FitzRoberts, PEaL; Aine inghean Tuathail ui Ghallchobhair, deputy to Pinnacle; Brendan ap Llewelyn, AEstel (An Tir); Aidan of Castlewood, Cornet; Medb ingen Rónáin; and Bevin ingen Coner(sp?).

2012 meetings have been scheduled as follows: February 5, March 4, April 22, May 20, June 10, July 15, August 19, September 23, October 21, and November 11. There is no meeting scheduled for December 2012; the January 2013 meeting will be held the Sunday of 12th Night, as usual.

Starting time: As my father has started holding Quaker meetings for worship in our home some Sunday mornings, heraldry meetings will now start at 1:00 PM in order to avoid conflict. Please do not arrive before 12:30 PM.

PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:

2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Contact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.

Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 12:30 PM to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.



Vesper - Attending - We have a serious problem finding deputies and successors for office. Our goal for the next year is recruitment and training for eventual seniority. We are even looking at t-shirts. We are also working up a bid for Known World for 2014. Any ideas, advice or comments are welcome.

Matins - Attending - Discussed the [then] proposed new rules, which are longer and considerably more intricate than the previous ones. Adoption of these seems likely to have a negative effect on recruitment, retainment, and morale among book heralds.

Bratchet - Attending - Meeting is currently alternating between Caoilinn's (Sable Swan) house and Katrina's (Cynaguan Lists) house each Monday. Meetings are going well and we are running current.

Latimer - Attending - next consultation table will be at March Crown. Bratchet franchise meetings are caught up and thus on hold.

Golem - Attending - We are still waiting for one confirmation report from Great Western War, otherwise we are caught up on court reports up through 12th Night. Received thank you's for smart phone access. Any updates or necessary changes, just ask and Golem will see what he can do.

Exchequer - attending - As of end of year, we have $3000+. Still working on signature problems with bank. Domesday should be on time by end of the month and to Vesper by 2/15, which will be the current Exchequer's last official act, and the successor will step up at that time.

Sea Wolf - Not Attending, sent report to Vesper

Stellanordica - Not Attending, sent report to Vesper

Sable Swan - Attending - Submissions are slowly happening, have had new people show interest in learning heraldry. Current Royalty is working on new honor for Investiture. Still looking for a deputy, and eventual successor. Really, really need to show the populace that we enjoy our jobs and it can be lots of fun.

Green Cloak - Attending - Rapier Tourney occurred during 12th Night on Saturday and we provided heralds. March Crown is in Tres Pinos and we need volunteer heralds and on-site training. White Shield is on the 10th and is an excellent opportunity for field training as well.

Baldric - Attending - Intermediate Court Training Day was held and it went well, with homework and projects assigned. Golden Rivers held local herald training at their Collegium and it was successful. If we need "Book" training, Latimer states email her and she will make every attempt to attend and train. Laurel has established an Education Duty Officer because the appropriate training of heralds is extremely important.

Banner - Not Attending, report by Vesper - Lots and Lots of court happened on Saturday (12th Night) and even though there was individual problems, it went so smoothly that the populace didn't realize there were problems. This is good.


The Known World Heralds and Scribes Symposium will be held in the East Kingdom (Rhode Island) over the weekend of June 22-24. Yes, this is the same weekend as West Kingdom June Crown Tourney. Sigh. Those desiring a more convenient time and location may desire to investigate the logistics of hosting one. It hasn't been held in the West in some time.


VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. The meetings are held most Mondays at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym (Brachet) for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, .

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astrið of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .


The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.


Cover letter

From Laurel: Request for Applications

Shauna wishes to give up the Ragged Staff office. This is the intake clerk for Wreath, Pelican and Laurel. The job description is below. If you are interested, please send a letter of interest to laurel@heraldry.sca.org, wreath@heraldry.sca.org and pelican@heraldry.sca.org. This position will be open until at least Wednesday, February 1, 2012.

Ragged Staff job description:

Skill requirements: the ability to manage and meet rolling deadlines; close attention to detail; basic computer skills including word processing, email, file uploads and downloads; basic knowledge of heraldry and the heraldic submissions process; basic knowledge about alphabetization including special characters from foreign languages; the physical ability to manage packets of paper.

Other requirements: a secure mailing point for incoming and outgoing packets (either at home or a Post Office box) which is accessible on a frequent basis (at least a couple times a week); a stable high-speed Internet connection and reliable email; space to store 6-8 standard, 5-drawer filing cabinets (either at home or in a storage unit) which is accessible year-round on at least weekly basis; space to keep some office supplies, the in-submission paperwork which needs immediate access, and a scanner. As noted above, if a Post Office box or a storage unit for the filing cabinets are necessary, the Laurel office will reimburse for those costs.

Other ways you could be awesome: availability two weekend days a month to attend Pelican and Wreath's meetings online; a deep and abiding love of process flow; more computer skills; a talent with automation.

It should be expected that this job involves ongoing, frequent correspondence (both paper and email) and processing of paperwork.

This job involves:

From Pelican: Request for Comments on Patterns in Order Names and Heraldic Titles

In the Cover Letter of August 2005 (following a call for comments on the Cover Letter of February 2005), Pelican made a substantial ruling regarding the patterns for registration for order names and heraldic titles. Since that time, our knowledge of order names and heraldic titles has advanced considerably, in large part due to the research that I did before I stepped up as Pelican.

For those who are not familiar with them, my "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" can be found at http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/index.shtml. It discusses over 600 period heraldic titles; while I think more titles will be found over time (especially in Germany), it considerably expanded the number of heraldic titles known to the Laurel office. My "Medieval Secular Order Names" (found at http://medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/ or at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/new/) also considerably altered our knowledge of medieval order names, by identifying large numbers of previously unknown German fraternal orders and determining which orders were actually founded far later, with invented medieval roots. I should note that I have work in progress on an article regarding the religious orders, as well as some notes regarding apocryphal and problematic orders. I would gladly share the data from the work in progress with others, but they are far from ready for publication.

Over the next few months, I'm going to be asking a group of questions about what we should allow and what we should not allow in the registration of order names and heraldic titles. This month, I want to ask a question about the relationship between order names and heraldic titles. Current precedent says that we allow the creation of heraldic titles from order names. However a recent submission (Saint John Chrysostom Herald, on the August Caid Letter of Intent) has raised the question of what sorts of order names were used to create heraldic titles. While that item will be decided before the close of commentary for this issue, the broader question remains: should we allow heraldic titles to be created from any order names or only from certain order names? If so, what sorts of order names should be models for creating heraldic titles?

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (A Series)

This month, we're going to turn our attention to the continent and French names. By about 1000 AD, there were two distinct kinds of languages spoken in what we call France today: the langue d'oïl (from which modern French descends) and the langue d'oc (from which modern Provencal/Occitan descends). These two types of languages have significantly different naming pools and grammar, and must be treated differently. Additionally, a Germanic language, Frankish, had fallen out of use, but had left its imprint on French names (like Girard and Arnoult). We'll talk about names in the langue d'oc next month.

The langue d'oïl refers to a group of dialects that would become modern French. Regional differences remain today; they were more significant in the Middle Ages. Therefore, if you're aiming for a particular location, you want to stick to data from that location. However, Laurel treats these dialects as a single language. Brittany is perhaps the most variant of them, as another language related to Cornish and Welsh, is spoken there in addition to French.

The data from Paris are quite rich: census records began to be kept in 1292. I tend to start with Colm Dubh's "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/paris.html) and then move to Aryanhwy merch Catmael's "French Names from Paris, 1421, 1423, & 1438" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/paris1423.html).

A variety of articles describe names in the provinces. They can be found at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/french.shtml. New names appear in the sixteenth century; a great source for them is Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada's "Names Found in Ambleny Registers 1578-1616" (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/Ambleny/).

There are good books dealing with French names and problematic books. Among the best is Marie Therese Morlet's Étude d'anthroponymie picarde : les noms de personne en Haute Picardie aux XIIIe, XIVe, XVe siècles (often called Morlet Picardie for short; it deals with the 13th to 15th century). Morlet has written other works as well. Les noms de personne sur le territoire de l'ancienne Gaule du VIe au XIIe siècle is a three volume work dealing with names from the 12th century and before. Unfortunately, Dictionnaire étymologique des noms de famille (etymological dictionary of family names) has very few dates. It is a great treatment of modern family names, but rarely allows us to determine anything about the use of these names before 1600. Therefore, it's not a good place to look for documentation; use one of her books that gives explicit dates for names. There are also two good books on French place names: Albert Dauzat and Charles Rostaing's Dictionnaire étymologique des noms de lieux en France and Ernest Nègre's Toponymie générale de la France : étymologie de 35000 noms de lieux. I often find myself searching Nègre in Google Books. Other books, like Dauzat and Rostaing or Morlet Picardie, are visible in snippet view, which can often be sufficient for documentation purposes.

From Wreath: Ladybugs Proper

This month we have defined a ladybug proper to be gules spotted sable; the head and legs are generally sable as well. At one point in the past, we did blazon ladybugs proper, but that practice was changed more recently. While ladybugs do vary in tincture in nature, most people have the same mental image of a typical ladybug, and as we have seen several submissions with ladybugs recently, we felt it time to once again define the proper tincture.

West Kingdom acceptances

Aidan of Castlewood. Device. Azure, a tree and on a chief embattled argent three frets couped sable.

Axel Wrightson. Name and device. Per pale sable and argent, in bend sinister two ravens rising contourny counterchanged.

This name mixes a Danish or German given name and an English byname; this combination is a step from period practice.

Francisco de Salamanca. Name and device. Gules, a castle and in chief three mullets of eight points Or, a bordure compony sable and Or.

The submitter requested authenticity for 13th century Spain; this name meets that request, though it is only likely for the last decade of that period.

Haley an Eich Gil. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Haley is the submitter's legal given name.

It is not clear if the byname should be lenited to match the feminine given name; we are giving her the benefit of the doubt and registering it as submitted.

Ydonea Norwood. Name and device. Per pale purpure and sable, a wolf statant and in base a compass star within and conjoined to an annulet argent.

Please advise the submitter to draw the compass star and annulet thicker, such that their conjoining is more easily seen.

There is a step from period practice for the use of a compass star.

West Kingdom returns

Haley an Eich Gil. Device. Argent estencely sable, a sea-horse vert.

This device is returned for a redraw, for violating section VII.7.a of the Rules for Submissions which requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." The estencely here is depicted as groups of three lozenges, two and one, rather than the expected depiction of groups of three roundels, one and two. The size of the lozenges here made them difficult to identify, as would be expected, and there has been no evidence presented, nor could any be found by commenters, of estencely of lozenges instead of roundels.


Cover letter:

From Laurel: KWHSS 2013 Bids Requested

For those considering bidding on the 2013 Known World Heraldic and Scribal Symposium, the deadline to have your bid entered into OSCAR is March 31, 2012. This will give the College of Arms time for consideration so that we can announce the bid's award at the 2012 KWHSS in the Barony of the Bridge, East Kingdom.

Please remember that bids posted to OSCAR are publicly readable. Because of this, all personal information, such as legal names, addresses, phone numbers, and email, should not be included in these bids without signed, written permission. Such information as is necessary should be posted as a comment after the bid is finalized, so that only the College of Arms can read it. Please send a copy of the full unredacted bid to Laurel at laurel@heraldry.sca.org.

As a reminder, there is a KWHSS domain and web hosting space available on the SCA's servers. Please do not register your own.

Please see http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/kwhs/ or contact Laurel if you have any questions.

From Laurel: New Codex

As happens from time to time, one of our staff members has left our employ for snowier pastures. I'm sure you'll all be sad to hear that Maol Mhichil mac Ghiolla Pheadair, our former Codex Herald, responsible for the care and feeding of the Laurel website, has stepped up once again as Polaris Principal Herald of Northshield. Combined with a new real-world job, he has not had the time to continue in the position of Codex and take on the role of Polaris. He has done a good job for us, and we look forward to good things out of Northshield.

Fortunately, we were quickly able to find a successor and have appointed Reis ap Tuder as our new Codex. Reis is notable as the original author of the ACE online commentary system, currently used by Ansteorra and Æthelmearc to do kingdom internal commentary. We hope that you will make him feel welcome. We also hope that the welcome will not be dumping all of the outstanding issues for the Laurel website on his head at once, then expecting it to all be done by next week

From Laurel: Education Deputy

As many of you know, one of my goals in office was to put into place an education deputy whose role would be to assist the Kingdoms in growing their Colleges by providing a resource to Kingdom Heralds to help educate all about heraldry. I have found a person to fill that role. Marie de Blois has stepped into this job. She will be retaining the Palimpsest title as well, since it is expected that there will be quite a lot less work with the rules, now that the proposal has gone to the Board.

I would also like to thank Richenda du Jardin for her work in this office. She is going to stay on board as one of Marie's deputies and continue to help out in the office.

From the Incoming Education Deputy: Greetings and Salutations!

I think most of you know me by now ... I'm Marie de Blois, Palimpsest and the Marie that posts on your kingdom's heraldry email list (yes, your kingdom has a heraldry email list and yes, I'm on it). So I'll skip to the fun part. You are all ready to have FUN, right? Because heraldry is FUN, right? If not, well, I think it should be!

My goals as education deputy are to help make it easier (and more fun) for everyone to learn more about heraldry, at all levels. In order to do that, I'll be contacting education heralds and principal heralds and all kinds of heralds around the SCA to find out what you need to make education happen in your kingdoms and who we can get to help. I have a list of ideas a mile long, starting with training documentation for the New Rules, so stay tuned. I encourage all the education heralds (and any other heralds interested in making heraldic education happen) reading this to get on the Herald-Education email list at: http://lists.sca.org/listinfo/herald-education/

I'd also like to thank Richenda du Jardin, my predecessor, both for her work in this office and for staying on as my deputy. She'll be continuing to work on making http://heraldry.sca.org/ full of amazing heraldic resources of all kinds.

From Pelican: Norse Capitalization

Current precedent requires that descriptive bynames in Norse be rendered in lowercase, while given names and patronyms be capitalized. When that standard was last considered in October 2002, Laurel ruled "to the best of our knowledge Gordon [who capitalized such bynames in his An Introduction to Old Norse] does not follow either period transliteration standards or modern transliteration standards." However, we register names in other languages, like Arabic, that follow transcription systems that are casual and not used by scholars.

In addition, the rise of Google Books has made many more sources available to us than were previously available. Therefore, we would ask commenters to revisit this issue answering two questions: does evidence continue to support the previous finding, that descriptive bynames in Old Norse are consistently lowercased by scholars? And even if the data says that scholarly standards render descriptive bynames in lowercase, should we register Old Norse names that follow relatively casual non-scholarly transcription standards? If so, should we allow forms that combine features of formal systems like accents and informal ones like capitalization for descriptive bynames?

From Pelican: Request for Comments on Patterns in Order Names and Heraldic Titles

In the Cover Letter of August 2005 (following a call for comments on the Cover Letter of February 2005), Pelican made a substantial ruling regarding the patterns for registration for order names and heraldic titles. Since that time, our knowledge of order names and heraldic titles has advanced considerably, in large part due articles like my "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" (found at http://medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/index.shtml) and my "Medieval Secular Order Names" (found at http://medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/ or at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/new/). I also have unpublished data that I will share with those who would like additional information.

This month I want to ask questions about the use of heraldic terms in order names and heraldic titles. Current precedent says that order names and heraldic titles can be created from the name of a charge as well as from the name of a charge plus the everyday color term used in some language for the name of a heraldic tincture: Cigne Noir 'black swan,' Roden Ermeln 'red sleeve(s)'. I note quickly that there are no period examples of an English color word; the English heraldic titles that use colors are formed in Anglo-Norman French. There are also no examples of purple in any language.

In these titles and order names, we generally see only the everyday terms for charges for those that have an ordinary name (we see things like fuzil and restre 'rustre'). But we never see terms like mullet instead of the plain word for star, for example. We do not currently require submitters to use the everyday term for heraldic charge: we register either everyday terms or heraldic terms. There is a discrepancy between the way we treat the names of charges and color terms. Should we leave this standard as it is? Should we restrict further the use of the names of heraldic charges, requiring submissions to use only the everyday terms for the charges? Should we loosen further the use of the names of heraldic tinctures, allowing the use of the formal heraldic tincture name as well as the vernacular terms? I'd note that many older groups have this usage grandfathered to them and continue to register items using the heraldic terms.

There are a handful of other adjectives used in order names and heraldic titles derived from charges: Estoile Volant 'flying star' (a star with wings), Croyslett (crosses crosslet), Corona Doble 'double crown', Rosenkrentzen 'rose wreaths' and gekrönten Steinbocken 'crowned ibex.' All seem to be more or less straightforward descriptions of charges. The second question is then: what other adjectives should we allow to modify charges? I'd encourage commenters to look at the data in the articles cited above, as well as the "heraldic" inn signs found at http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~grm/signs-1485-1636.html and http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/inn/. The inn signs are interesting as they add some posture/orientation terms: Cross keyes and Spread eagle (and a 1636 Two neck'd Swan). However, whether these late period and grey period inn-sign names are appropriate for heraldic titles and order names is yet another question.

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (A Series)

This month, we continue with French names by turning our attention to the langue d'oc, modern Occitan/Provencal. Unfortunately, there are really no books that are readily available that deal with Occitan. Our main sources, therefore, are online.

Occitan is closely related to another language (or group of languages) spoken in eastern Spain, called Catalan. The best source for Occitan and Catalan names is http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/occitan.shtml.

A great source for early names is Ramons lo Montalbes' "French/Occitan Names from the XII and XIII Century" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ramon/occitan/). This article, and the author's name, demonstrate an important feature of Occitan: it generally used a nominative marker, which for men is -s. So, we see forms like Azemars, Aimerics, and of course Ramons. Note that the French names in this article are modern, but the Occitan names are original. The other early sources we have are Latinized, which means that the names are written in Latin and modified from the likely spoken form.

For the 14th century, there are articles from several locations. One of the largest is Aryanhwy merch Catmael's "Occitan names from Saint Flour, France, 1380-1385" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/saintflour.html). For the late 16th century, I find myself using Talan Gwynek's "Late Period Feminine Names from the South of France" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/latefrenchfem/). Unfortunately, many of the articles that deal with southern French names give the northern French versions of Occitan names.

From Wreath: Voided (and Interlaced) Charges

This month we ruled that charges that are voided as part of their definition, such as mascles and annulets, may be used in all types of charge groups. This clarifies section VIII.3 of the Rules for Submissions, which requires that "Voiding and fimbriation may only be used with simple geometric charges placed in the center of the design."

This rule was interpreted in February 2011 to mean that mullets of eight points voided and interlaced were too complex to be used as a charge not in the center of the design. More recent interpretations have included mullets of five and six points voided and interlaced in this ruling, preventing their use as non-primary charges. However, as mullets of five and six points voided and interlaced can be found in period armory and are simpler and more recognizable than a mullet of eight points voided and interlaced, we have declared their voiding and interlacing to be part of their definition of type, and so they may also be used as non-primary charges.

We will continue to not use the terms pentagram or pentacle, due to their possible confusion over whether or not an annulet is involved.

From Wreath: Marshalling and Chiefs

This month we considered whether or not a charged chief removes the appearance of marshalling with a quartered field. Past precedent states:

[Per pale, a harp and a cross of four lozenges, a chief embattled] The chief was a mark of primary cadency in period (Gayre's Heraldic Cadency, p.153), and it became part of the Stodart system of cadency used today in Scotland. Thus, the addition of a chief to quartered armory would not remove the appearance of marshalling. However, the chief's use as a brisure was never as widespread as the bordure's; where the bordure would be used to cadence all forms of marshalling, the chief would only be used to cadence quartering. In the case of impalement --- which implies a marital coat, not an inherited one --- the addition of the chief is sufficient to remove the appearance of marshalling. [Æthelstan von Ransbergen, A-Ansteorra, Sep 1992]

Further research seems to indicate that the chief was not used as a mark of cadency in Anglo-Norman armory on a marshalled coat, either impaled or quartered, unlike the bordure and the label. The Stodart system of cadency used in Scotland concentrates primarily on the use of bordures. We are therefore overturning past precedent, and allowing chiefs both charged and uncharged to remove the appearance of marshalling on both impaled and quartered fields. Chiefs so used must not add to the appearance of marshalling by having a per pale division with tinctures or dissimilar charges so arranged as to create confusion.

From Wreath: Mullets and Estoiles, Take Two

Commenters were asked to discuss whether or not we should consider mullets and estoiles equivalent for purposes of conflict, or if we should continue to treat them as significantly different.

The Cover Letter to the June 1991 LoAR cited some evidence of their interchangeability in period armory, but chose to retain the distinction in Society armory. Further research has provided some evidence of distinction late in period, but the issue is more complicated than that.

The term estoile used in Society armory is taken from the English charge of a six pointed star with wavy rays. On the continent, estoile or etoile is a likewise a star, but depicted as what we would consider a plain straight-rayed mullet, with points ranging from six to eight, and occasionally more. The English mullet is generally always five pointed, generally with rather fat rays, and in its occasional piercing shows its resemblance to (and, no doubt, descent from) the spur rowel, another charge we consider significantly different.

The only heraldic jurisdiction which had both mullets and estoiles is England. Only later in period is there evidence that the charges were considered non-interchangeable. In every other heraldic jurisdiction, stars are stars. However, in English armory, a typical five-pointed mullet and a very star-like six-pointed estoile have more visual distinction than a typical five-pointed mullet and a typical pierced spur-rowel.

Therefore, I feel I can do no better than to quote from the June 1991 Cover Letter, in which Master Da'ud, then Laurel, writes:

While Lord Laurel (a secret sympathizer of the dreaded Authenticity Police) can see much educational and re-creative benefit to doing SCA heraldry in such a way as to most closely follow period heraldry, he honestly believes that there are very few heralds in the Known World who would be willing to look a person submitting a device in the face and tell them that a five pointed star and a six-rayed estoile are the same thing. (I am reminded of the line from "Young Frankenstein": "This could be dangerous. You go first.")

I believe that there are times when the visual reality (the "20th Century visual reality", if you will, but we are dealing with people untrained in any other century for the most part) is so strong as to overcome period heraldic practice, whether it be in granting difference or in permitting none. I also believe this to be one of those instances.

I feel the visual reality of the 21st Century to be little enough changed in this precise case, and so will decline to change precedent at this time. This issue should be revisited in the future, as we continue to move submitters towards more period style. For now, however, there still remains a CD between mullets and estoiles.

Commenters were also asked to consider whether we should continue granting difference for the number of points on a mullet. As this topic was not much explored, I am making the following proposal and asking commenters for feedback:

Mullets with eight or more points that are drawn with sufficiently short points may be reblazoned as suns. Properly drawn compass stars are mullets, and will be granted a CD from suns. Suns should have at least eight short rays, preferably more, and be drawn with a large central area.

This proposal may result in some reblazoning of mullets or estoiles to suns.

Commenters are asked to couch any suggested alternatives in a similarly explicit fashion.

From Wreath: Crescents and Things

This month we have two submissions that could both be blazoned (Fieldless) Within the horns of a crescent, a <charge>. Past practice has been that if the charge and the crescent are conjoined, the crescent is the primary charge and the other charge is a maintained charge. Rarely, the other charge has been deemed a sufficient size to be considered sustained, and thus co-primary with the crescent. If the two are not conjoined, the charge is usually considered the primary charge, with the crescent as a secondary charge, but occasionally the reverse is the case. Such variation in blazon leads to confusion.

Placing items between the horns of a crescent is a period heraldic motif. Richard I of England used it as a seal, currently listed in Society armory as the badge (Tinctureless) An estoile between the horns of a crescent, a style of badge that was likely brought back from the East during the Crusades. The family of Percy had as a badge within the horns of a crescent a pair of shacklebolts. There is no doubt other examples could be found.

As this seems to be not only a period heraldic motif, but a fairly popular one as well, it would reduce confusion and make conflict checking far easier if we were able to standardize on blazon and charge type grouping. Given that there does not seem to be any evidence that such badges in period were interchanged with plain crescents, we will not consider the thing between the horns to be a maintained charge, so long as it is of an ample size. We have a similar item-surrounding-another motif with charges within and conjoined to annulets, although crescents can take up more of the central visual space than an annulet. In those cases, generally (but not always!) the thing within the annulet is the primary charge, with the annulet the secondary charge. Using that as an example, I am asking for commentary on the following two options:

In either case, this would apply to all orientations of a crescent. The blazon between the horns has no difference from within.

West Kingdom acceptances

Eideard Slaighter Feusagach. Reblazon of device. Per bend raguly argent and azure, a three-headed thistle proper and an Irish harp gules stringed and fimbriated Or.

Blazoned when registered in February 1972 as Per bend embattled a plomb, argent a three-headed thistle proper and azure an Irish harp gules, stringed and fimbriated Or, we are clarifying the field division.

Judith Greanwood. Badge. (Fieldless) Three estoiles conjoined at the points, one and two, argent.

This badge is not in conflict with the standard augmentation of the Kingdom of Meridies, (Fieldless) Three mullets one and two argent. As Matins wrote in commentary:

"...the cover letter to the October 2003 LOAR states:

[I]t is not necessary to check new devices or badges for conflict against previously existing augmentations that have the appearance of being independent armory. This is because the augmentations do not have an existence separate from the arms that they augment, and therefore are not independently protectable entities...Note also that, per RfS VIII.7, it is not necessary to check augmentations for conflict when they do not have the appearance of an independent display of armory.

The fact of the augmentation having no separate existence from augmented armory seems equally valid in the case of augmentations which do not have the appearance of independent armory, and it strikes me as incongruous if augmentations not having the appearance of independent armory, which by rule cannot conflict, are nonetheless protected from conflict as if they were independent armory."

This badge was pended from the August 2011 LoAR.

West Kingdom returns


In Service,
Owen ap Morgan
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 8 January, XLVI (2012)


Caitríona de Skrevyn - New Name

The submitter states a preference for a feminine Irish name from the 14th-16th century.

Caitríona is an Irish feminine given name. The web page "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Caitríona" by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) at http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Caiterina.shtml attests a Caitríona inghen Aodha Ruaidh Még Mathghamhna from 1493.

de Skrevyn is an Anglicized Irish surname. Woulfe (s.n. de Scriḃin) lists this spelling in italics, indicating an early Anglicized form.

We note the registered Katarina Scryvener (Sept. 2002 East) but consider this clear by the addition of a syllable to the surname.

Ivan Vladimir Belogorskoi - New Name

Submitter requests an authentic 14th century Russian masculine name.

Ivan is a Russian masculine given name found in Wickenden (s.n. Ioann). Ivan Fomin syn is attested from 1181, and while I have not found a citation for the given name in the desired 14th C, patronymic forms appear in citations of Mikhail Ivanovich and Prokofei Ivanovich', both from 1386, and Grigorii Ivanovits from 1392. Consequently we believe the spelling Ivan should be valid for the 14th C.

Vladimir is a Russian masculine given name found as a header in Wickenden, which attests Vladimir Vsevolodovich from 1053. Similar later spellings cited include Volodimir from 1302, Vlodimer Ol'g'rdovich' from 1362-92 and Vladimer Ondreevich from 1558, while the spelling Vlad- (from the same root word) can be found in the 14th C in Vl'kats Vladisalich from 1395 (s.n. Vladislav) and Alekseiko, called Vladych'ka from 1377 (s.n. Vladyka). Consequently it seems plausible that the spelling Vladimir could have appeared in the 14th C.

Wickenden asserts that double given names in Russian are never composed of two Christian names, and gives Vladimir as an example of a native Russian name which became used as a Christian name following the 13th C canonization of Saint Vladimir. As we are uncertain whether this implies that it would always be considered a Christian name thereafter, we are sending this on for discussion and a more informed ruling.

Belogorskoi is a Russian masculine byname. Wickenden (s.n. Belogor) attests Ivan Pavlov syn Belogorskoi from 1583-7, listing this under "Pat Vars", but the byname appears to have the form of an adjectival locative. Wickenden (p. xxix) states that adjectival locative bynames appeared in the 11th C and were "the accepted form for noting legal residency in court documents" by the 14th-15th C. Belogor is said to mean "white hills", and the initial Belo- can also be found identified as "white" prior to the 14th C, e.g., Belovolod Prosevich from 1184 (s.n. Belovolod) and Belozud from c. 800 (s.n. Belozud). It is not stated whether Aleksandr Belovut from 1385 (s.n. Belovut) derives from the same root, but it seems likely. The terminal -skoi can be found at least as early as 1426 in Paroei Pskovskoi (s.n. Pskovskoi). While this does not make the submitted spelling conclusively 14th C, it seems close enough to be plausible, and I have found nothing to suggest a better alternative.

John Comyn of Westley - New Name Change (see Returns for device change)

His previous name Anthony Westley, registered Aug. 1995, is to be released. The submitter states a preference for the spelling Comyn.

John is an English masculine given name of Biblical origin. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. John) cite patronymic forms Thomas John from 1279 and Robert Johns from 1327.

Comyn is a Scottish surname. Black (s.n. Cumming) attests William Comyn from 1219 and Simon Comyn from 1463.

of Westley is an English locative byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Wesley) attest a Richard de Westleye from 1332; the submitted spelling is a Lingua Anglica variant. The terminal -ley can be found in Reaney & Wilson in, e.g., Richard Knyghtley from 1411 (s.n. Knightley) and Richard de Okeley from 1327 (s.n. Oakley).

Collectively, the submitted name should be reasonable for a 14th C Englishman.

Sophie Hebenstreit - New Name Change

Her former name Valeria Tertia Alexandrina, registered Jan. 2003, is to be released.

Sophie is a German feminine given name. The article "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia" by Talan Gwynek (Copyright 1998 by Brian M. Scott) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm attests two instances of this spelling from 1375 and 1383.

Hebenstreit is a German byname. The article "German Names from Kocise, 1307 - 1505" by Guntram von Wolkenstein at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/kosice.htm attests a Johannes Hebenstreit from 1423-4, 1431-1435.

Thorsteinn raudskeggr - New Name Change

His former name Ivan Ivanovitch Serebrenikov, registered July 1992, is to be retained as an alternate name.

The submitter states a preference, but does not request authenticity, for the Old Norse language. While the elements of the name can be found in Old Norse, the submitted spellings appear to be somewhat later. Submitted as Thorsteinn Raudskeggr, the capitalization of the byname has been removed.

Thorsteinn is a Norse given name. The spelling Þorsteinn is cited in Geirr Bassi as appearing 83 times in his sources; this spelling is also what the submitter documents. For the submitted spelling, Lind (col. 1208 s.n. Þorsteinn) cites Thorstein, -nn from 1299 and/or 1302.

raudskeggr is a Norse descriptive byname meaning "red-beard". Geirr Bassi shows the spelling rauðskeggr with this meaning; the submitter documents the individual rauðr "red" and Skegg- "beard". For the spelling raudskeggr we note that Lind Personbinamn (col. 291 s.n. Rauðskeggr) shows variants ravdskegs and ravdscegg. The shift from rauð- to raud- is found multiple times in Lind Personbinamn cols. 287-291, and the possibility of combining that with keeping the terminal -r is indicated by Þorkell raudr Sueinsson (col. 289 s.n. Rauðr) from 1398. Taken as a whole, this seems to suggest the plausibility of the submitted spelling piecing together raud- from raudr, -sk- from ravdskegs, -egg- from ravdscegg, and -r from raudr.

Alternatively, the name might be seen as a transliteration of the solidly Old Norse Þorsteinn rauðskeggr. If a decision is (has been?) made to permit capitalization of Norse bynames, the submitter's original Thorsteinn Raudskeggr could be restored.


Fiva Kalista Beloozeroskogo - New name and device

Gules, in pale two compass stars elongated to base and in fess two bears statant respectant argent.

Fiva is a Russian feminine given name found as a header in Wickenden, which lists a 1st century Saint Fiva.

Kalista is a Russian feminine given name found as a header in Wickenden. The alternate spelling Kallista is cited as a martyr from c. 300.

Beloozeroskogo is asserted to be a Russian byname constructed from 'belo' (white) + 'ozero' (lake) + 'skogo' (of). No justification is given for construction by concatenation. Wickenden does, however, cite masculine bynames Belozer and Belozerets both stated to mean "of Belozero" which may have the desired meaning (particularly as "Luka Belozerov" is stated to be a fisherman.) These could be feminized.

The major problem is that Wickenden states there are no known instances of double given names in Russian where both are Christian names. Both the given names here appear to be Christian names.

The device, which in any case could not be sent on without a name, conflicts with the badge of the Barony of Septentria Gules, a bear passant argent, registered July 1986 via the Middle. By long-standing precedent there is only one CD for adding charges to a group. So long as the charges already present remain essentially unchanged, it doesn't matter how different the new ones may be - there's still only one CD for adding them. As one of the four primary charges in Fiva's submission is a bear statant argent, this precedent applies. (The change from passant to statant is not enough to count for difference, and the change in the position of that bear is forced by the addition of the other charges, so it also does not count for difference.)

John Comyn of Westley - New change of device

Or, on a sun sable an annulet Or, a bordure counter-compony sable and argent.

Available evidence indicates that this conflicts with the device of Eliahu ben Itzhak Or, on a mullet of six points sable a griffin segreant contourny Or and likewise with his badge Or, on a mullet of six points sable a griffin sejant to sinister erect, grasping in its dexter talon three arrows inverted and in its sinister talon a paintbrush and palette, all Or, both registered Dec. 1992 via the Middle. There is one CD for the bordure, but nothing between a sun and a mullet of six points nor for the type only of the tertiary on the complex charge. Note that when Brenna of Storvik and Gauss Magnússon registered their joint badge for House Golden Raven (Fieldless) On a mullet of eight points sable a bird Or in May 2004 via Atlantia, Laurel stated:

The submitters have a letter of permission to conflict with Eliahu ben Itzhak: Or, on a mullet of six points sable, a griffin segreant contourny Or and Or, on a mullet of six points sable, a griffin sejant to sinister erect, grasping in its dexter talon three arrows inverted and in its sinister talon a paintbrush and palette, all Or.
If the submission were not in conflict, making permission unnecessary, we would expect that Laurel would have said so. A sun is equivalent to a mullet of many points, so the same situation applies here.

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