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The meeting was held on Sunday, 5 February 2012, in Stockton. The meeting started at 2:00PM and ended at 5:20PM. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet; Eilis O’Byrne, Baldric; Caoilinn Rose Maddox, Sable Swan / Exchequer; Jared of Castlewood, Pinnacle; Frederick of Holland, PaL; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, PaL; Na’arah bat Avraham, PaL; Anne FitzRichard, PEaL; Aine inghean Tuathail ui Ghallchobhair, deputy to Pinnacle; Gareth Hadley; Mina Wynter; and Joy Manlangit.
COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
2012 meetings have been scheduled as follows: March 4, April 22, May 20, June 10, July 15, August 19, September 23, October 21, and November 11. There is no meeting scheduled for December 2012; the January 2013 meeting will be held the Sunday of 12th Night, as usual.
Starting time: As my father has started holding Quaker meetings for worship in our home some Sunday mornings, heraldry meetings will now start at 1:00 PM in order to avoid conflict. Please do not arrive before 12:30 PM.
PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:
2023 Oak Branch DrContact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 12:30 PM to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.
We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list firstname.lastname@example.org . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at email@example.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.PERSONNEL -- RECENT CHANGES AND POSITIONS AVAILABLE:
Moira, Vesper: Vesper will not be attending KWHSS this June. After some discussion, the West Kingdom College of Heralds will donate $700 of its funds to the kingdom in order to help cover the BoD's assessment for the lawsuit settlement. The project to back up kingdom heraldic data is proceeding. There is some concern about the continued right to use Hirsch's proprietary computer code depending on the BoD's future actions and policies regarding intellectual property rights on official Society web pages. There has been a request for heraldic training at White Shield.
Owen, Matins: Publication of the January minutes has been delayed because Matins has not received the transcriptions of the officers' reports. [This remains true as of Apr. 21.] As reported by various sources, the BoD declined to accept the proposed new heraldic Rules for Submissions at their January meeting. It remains unclear precisely what the consequences of that action will be; attendees of the BoD meeting felt that the draft rules were rejected for being too long and complex, while Laurel seems to feel that it may still be possible to get the draft accepted as is through political maneuvering.
Gwenhwyfaer, Brachet: Research has progressed through about half of the December submissions; about a week should be enough to complete those. January, however, looms large.
Astrið, Latimer / East Bay Brachet: The next consultation table appearance will be March Crown. Investigation continues into ways to make consultation at events more effective.
Research at the East Bay meetings is almost up to date, with only two letters pending.
Eilis, Baldric: No report.
Ketiley, Banner (Acting): The .pdf version of the heraldic ceremonies on the WKH web page is not up to date. There is a need to review kingdom ceremonies.
Aasa, Greencloak (Acting): All is well.
Hirsch, Golem: No report.
Gillian, Seawolf: No report.
Caoilinn, Sable Swan (Acting) / Exchequer: Investiture occurred. Cynagua needs more court heralds.
Bianca, Stellanordica (Acting): Coronet and investiture took place two weeks ago; all reports are in.
Earl P JonesSubmissions sent to other addresses may or may not reach Matins in a timely manner (or at all.)
ATTN: Matins Herald
2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton CA 95205
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VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.
MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at firstname.lastname@example.org.
ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at email@example.com -- answers may take a few days.
West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.
EAST BAY COMMENTING MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astrið of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .
EXCERPTS FROM THE LOARThe cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.
DECEMBER 2011 LOAR
From Laurel: Status Of The New Rules
At the January, 2012 Board Meeting, held on January 28, the Board returned the new Rules for Submission to this office for further review. Laurel and Palimpsest are working with the Board to determine what is necessary to get these rules approved. More details will follow as we receive such.
From Pelican: Some Name Resources (A Series)
Like most other parts of Europe, the Iberian peninsula (modern Spain and Portugal) was linguistically diverse in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most languages spoken on the peninsula are descended from Latin; the Iberian peninsula was fully integrated into the Roman Empire. In the western area, the language developed into modern Portuguese and Galician. In the central area, the language developed into modern Castilian (also called Spanish). In the east, it developed into modern Catalan. This is an oversimplification, as considerable linguistic variation continues to this day, but these define the major languages and the major language groups. In addition to the Romance languages, two other languages were important. Basque (also known as Vasco or Euskadi) was spoken in some parts of northeastern Spain. Arabic was spoken in the south from the Arab invasion in 8th century until the end of period (despite the conquest of the last Muslim kingdom in 1492 and the early 16th century expulsion of Muslims from Spain).
Articles for all these areas may be found at the Medieval Names Archives (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/iberian.shtml and http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/occitan.shtml). For Portuguese, the earliest vernacular (as opposed to Latin) records show up around 1200, and my article "Early Portuguese Names" (at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/earlyportuguese/) documents those forms. Both Aryanhwy merch Catmael and I have done research on later Portuguese names, which can be found at the first link above. For Castilian/Spanish, research spans a broader period of time. For names before 1200, I still go first to a print source: Gonzalo Diez Melcon's Apellidos Castellano-Leoneses: Siglos IX-XIII, ambos inclusive (Surnames from Castile and Leon: 9th to 13th centuries inclusive). It's a stunning set of data, and well indexed. Talan Gwynek published an index to the given names from it in the Known World Heraldic Symposium Proceedings in 1993; he has declined to revise it for online posting, but it's definitely worth finding. Otherwise, I tend to go to the articles, especially my "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century"(http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/) and Elsbeth Anne Roth's "16th Century Spanish Names" (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kvs/heraldry/spanish16/). Each indexes thousands of names; other excellent articles include smaller datasets. For the Catalan-speaking areas, I start with Aryanhwy merch Catmael's "Catalan Names from the 1510 census of Valencia" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/spanish/valencia1510.html). In addition to the published data, I have several unpublished datasets for this area that cover the 14th and 15th centuries, so feel free to inquire if your clients are interested in that period.
For the non-Romance languages, we also have sources. Basque is problematic, as there are relatively few Basque language sources before 1600. But the names of Basque speakers were written down in Catalan and Spanish. Many are identical to the names of Spanish speakers, as some Basque names were adopted into Spanish and many Spanish names adopted into Basque. However, with that caveat, Karen Larsdatter's "Basque Onomastics of the Eighth to Sixteenth Centuries" (http://www.larsdatter.com/basque/) is a great introduction to these names. She includes in this article both elements that were used by Basques and elements that were Basque by origin but used by Spaniards. You can generally tell which are which by looking at her sources: citations from Diez Melcon are generally from outside the Basque-speaking area.
For Arabic names, I start with my "Arabic Names from al-Andalus" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/alandalus/) (al-Andalus is the Arabic name for the Islamic parts of the Iberian peninsula). This article includes data from a group of studies of Arabic names in the area. There are other great articles on Arabic names, but they focus on the Middle East proper, rather than explicitly on the Iberian peninsula. These Arabic names can be registered with or without all the diacritical marks (long marks, emphatic dots, etc.). For Jewish names, you need to focus on location, as Jews tended to use vernacular names as well as Hebrew/biblical ones. Therefore, the names of Jews in Catalan-speaking areas were not the same as those in Castilian-speaking areas. We don't have any studies of Portuguese Jewish names; I'd love any recommendations. For Castilian context, I use a mundane article by Lidia Becker, "Names of Jews in Medieval Navarre" (found at http://pi.library.yorku.ca/dspace/bitstream/handle/10315/3618/icos23_140.pdf?sequence=1) and Julie Kahan's "Jewish Women's Names in 13th to 15th Century Navarre" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juetta/nav_intro.html). For Catalan contexts, I start with my "Jews in Catalonia: 1250 to 1400" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/catalan-jews/). Again, we have no sources for Jews in Arabic-speaking Spain. Therefore, I usually start with the information that we have from Jewish Cairo, including my "Jewish Women's Names in an Arab Context: Names from the Geniza of Cairo" and the sections about bynames that have been published in Known World Heraldic Symposium proceedings.
From Wreath: Knotty Serpents
While most serpents in period armory are erect or encircled, it is not uncommon to find serpents nowed, and discussion was raised this month on whether or not to count difference between serpents twisted into different kinds of knots. Precedent has long held, with the exception of knots-as-charges, that "knots are knots", with no difference granted for type of knot. This is true for both serpents as well as other parts of charges that may find themselves tangled up, such as lions' tails.
More recent precedent, based on not granting difference between a serpent involved in annulo and an annulet, states "A serpent nowed in a simple recognizable knot therefore has no significant difference for type from that knot itself." [Eve the Just, March 2004 LoAR, R-Ealdormere] However, we have no evidence that the two types of charges, serpents and knots, were considered identical in period. Knots themselves were typically depicted as braided cords with frayed ends; serpents are also long, slender, and flexible, but the similarities end there.
Therefore, we are explicitly overturning the March 2004 precedent: unless evidence is provided showing that they were considered interchangeable in period, serpents are significantly different (a CD) from cords, but may continue to have visual conflict with knots under section X.5 of the Rules for Submissions.
West Kingdom acceptances
Submitted as Eibhilín O'Mulclahy, kingdom conveyed a clarification from the submitter that the intended byname was O Mulcahy. We have made this correction.
This name mixes a Gaelic given name with an Anglicized Irish byname; this is a step from period practice.
Blazoned when registered in June 1976 as Per pale sable and argent, in fess two sea-horses couped to the forefin and conjoined, a mullet above the head of each, all counterchanged, upon the line of division a sword inverted of the field, fimbriated counterchanged, we are significantly revising the blazon to reflect modern terminology and practice.
There is a step from period practice for the use of compass stars.
Blazoned when registered in January 1973 as Azure on a fess argent two golpes between three crosses patty gules, we are reblazoning the crosses as formy, as the term patty is ambiguous.
Submitted as Lina Wynter, the submitter indicated that she would prefer Mina. Mina is dated to Florence in 1427. We have made that change in order to meet the submitter's preferences.
This name mixes an Italian given name and an English byname; this is a step from period practice.
Blazoned when registered in November 1973 as Argent, a lobster displayed gules, the lobster is in the default tergiant posture.
This is an authentic Russian form of a Viking name suitable for the 10th century; our compliments!
Submitted as Tuathflaith inghean Máedóc, the byname mixes Early Modern Gaelic inghean with a Middle Gaelic patronym. The wholly Middle Gaelic form (compatible with the submitter's preference for a 6th-10th century form) is ingen Máedóc; we have made that change in order to register it.
West Kingdom returns
Owen ap Morgan
SUBMISSONS – 5 February, XLVI (2012)ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL
Andrew of Wiklund - Name and device resubmission to kingdom (Apr. 2011)
Vert, three triangles conjoined one and two and a chief embattled Or.The original submission of Andrew of Viklund was returned for failure to document the byname. The current submission of the identical name documented the byname only with a printout of a Google Maps screen showing a modern location in Norway named Viklund. Google Maps actually finds four locations in Norway presently named Viklund, but we have no information at present giving any of them a period date.
The submitter has also, however, indicated a willingness to substitute Wicklund for Viklund. His documentation for Wicklund is a printout of http://www.houseofnames.com/wicklund-family-crest; the printout asserts that Wicklund is an "ancient and distinguished surname" but gives no dated citations of that spelling. As we have found other support for the intermediate spelling Wiklund, however, we are passing the name along in the form given here.
Andrew of Wiklund differs from the submitter's legal name as given on his forms mainly by the preposition of, but this minimal change is sufficient. If it seems necessary, we will attempt to provide documentation of the legal surname as alternate documentation for the spelling Wicklund.
Andrew is an English masculine given name of Biblical origin. Withycombe states "From the 12th C it became a general favourite" and cites the variant spelling Andreu from 1273; Reaney & Wilson attest a patronymic Richard Andrew from 1317. (Both s.n. Andrew.)
of Wiklund is a constructed English locative byname. Ekwall gives assorted placenames starting with a form of the Old English w?c rendered in various spellings. Among these are Wikham (s.n. Wickham) cited from 1220, 1291, and the DB (three different locations) and Wyk (s.n. Wick) from 1253. The meaning is variously "dwelling", "town", or "dairy farm". Old English lund (from the Old Norse lundr, meaning "grove") appears as a terminal element of the following names from Ekwall: Boylund 1228 (s.n. Boyland), Kirkelund c 1230 (s.n. Kirkland), Roclund 1254 (s.n. Rockland), Snelleslund c 1115 (s.n. Snelland), Suenelund 1189 (s.n. Swanland), and Swithellund 1209-19 (s.n. Swithland). The hypothetical construction would refer to a dwelling or dairy farm by a grove.
Anton Barsuk - New Name (see Returns for device)
Anton is a Russian masculine given name. "Paul Goldschmidt's Dictionary of Period Russian Names - Section A" at http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/a.html (s.n. Antonii) attests an Anton Sholukha as a Vinnitsa craftsman from 1552.
Barsuk is a Russian masculine given name. "Paul Goldschmidt's Dictionary of Period Russian Names - Section BA" at http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ba.html (s.n. Barsuk) attests an Ivan Barsuk as a Ratnensk peasant from 1565, which also shows the pattern of the name as a whole.
Brigid O Connour - New name and device
Argent, a wolf sejant ululant contourny sable between three dogwood flowers purpure seeded argent.Submitted as Brigid O'Connor to match the registered name Moira O'Connor of her head of household, that spelling of the surname was documented only by reference to MacLysaght and appears to be a purely modern Anglicization. We have substituted an earlier Anglicized form.
Brigid is an Irish feminine given name. The submitter provides a printout of http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=453 regarding "St. Brigid of Ireland", which cites the "Vita Sanctae Brigidae" by Cogitosus from c.650. Consequently the spelling Brigid should be available throughout the medieval period via the saint's name allowance.
O Connour is an Anglicized Irish patronymic byname. Woulfe (s.n. Ó Con?oḃair) cites this spelling in italics as an early Anglicization.
Carrek Mac Brian - New Name (see Returns for device)
Submitted as Carrick McBrian, the submitter's documentation did not adequately support those spellings. We have substituted the nearest spellings for which we found support.
Carrek is an Irish masculine given name. The article "Names and Naming Practices in the Red Book of Ormond (Ireland 14th Century) Given Names" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/lateirish/ormond-given.html#Given cites a single instance of this spelling from an Irish/Welsh context.
This citation was one of the items the submitter presented as documentation for Carrick. Others were the assertion that the existence of a surname McCarrick (with citation of http://www.houseofnames.com/McCarrick-history?A=54323-292) necessarily implied a given name Carrick, and a reference without photocopies to an entry in the New Cambridge Medieval History. While Black has a header entry for MacCarrick, it contains no indication that the header spelling is period or that the surname derives from a given name resembling Carrick. Based on the information given, there is no way to determine whether the New Cambridge Medieval History provides any useful support.
Mac Brian is an Anglicized Irish patronymic surname. Woulfe (s.n. Mac Ḃriain) cites the scribal abbreviation M' Brian in italics as an early Anglicized form; we interpret this as representing Mac Brian.
The submitter's support for McBrian consisted of documentation for the given name Brian plus the unsupported assertion that "Mc is a the [sic] standard naming device meaning 'son of' in Celtic countries."
Gareth Hadley - Device resubmission to kingdom (Oct. 2011)
Quarterly azure and vert, a lion between three lozenges argent.The previous attempt of Quarterly azure and vert, a lion within a bordure argent was returned in Oct. 2011 for conflict with the badge of Duncan von Halstern (May 2010 AEthelmearc) Per pale purpure and sable, a lion and a bordure argent.
Hunith Hen - New Name (see Returns for device)
Client requests authenticity for 12th-14th Century Welsh language and/or culture. Submitted as Hunydd Hen, the given name appears in the documentation only as a modern header spelling. We have substituted the attested period spelling in accordance with the authenticity request.
Hunith is a 13th C Welsh feminine given name attested in the article "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/welsh13.html (s.n. Hunydd).
Hen is a 13th C Welsh byname based on a personal nickname meaning "old" attested in the same article. No mutation is indicated for use in a feminine name.
Tangwystyl's article further states that "The most typical overall structure for names is a given name followed by a single byname" and that the byname is a descriptive nickname "about a quarter of the time".
Mina Wynter - Device resubmission to kingdom (Aug. 2011)
Per chevron inverted vert and sable, a bear rampant and an ivy vine, the vine in chevron inverted, argent.Two previous attempts were returned for contrast and identifiability problems. There was some concern expressed over having a single vine arrayed in chevron inverted, but it seems no less plausible than an orle of vine.
Sabrina de la Bere - New Augmentation of Arms (see Returns for badge)
Or, a bend sinister azure between a rose gules slipped and singly thorned proper and a natural leopard couchant sable, for augmentation the bend sinister charged in chief with a poppy palewise Or.The submitter was admitted to the Order of the Golden Poppy on Jan. 7, AS XL (2006) by King Fabian & Queen Elika (http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Awards/ALPHAS01.HTM). By West Kingdom law (http://www.westkingdom.org/sites/default/files/Laws%20of%20the%20Kingdom%20of%20the%20West%20as%20of %20July2011.pdf Section 7.7.4), "Members of the Order of the Golden Poppy have the right to augment their arms with golden poppies under the consultation of the heralds."
There is a potential sword-and-dagger issue if the poppy is given no difference in type from the rose. Augmentations are given some leeway with regard to style rules, however; we are unaware whether this has ever been extended (or denied) to the sword-and-dagger rule. In this case there is particular reason for using a poppy as the augmentation, so we hope allowance would be made.
The blazon of the base device has been modified somewhat from the registered form in order to conform to current practice. It may be desirable to reblazon the base device as well.
Anton Barsuk - New device
Per bend sable and Or, a bendlet between a badger rampant regardant and three roses counterchanged, a bordure sable.The bordure has no contrast at all with half the field; this is unacceptable.
In addition, there are drawing issues. The bend is far too narrow, the bordure
is narrower than it ought to be, and the thick sable markings on the badger run so close
to its back that it compromises the easy identifiability of the charge.
Carrek Mac Brian - New device
Gules, on a roundel argent a raven displayed contourny sable.This strikingly simple design bears an unfortunate and unacceptable similarity to the flag of Nazi Germany Gules, on a plate a cross gammadion saltirewise sable. Changing only the charge on the roundel counts only one CD. Additional conflicts include the device of Edwin Bersark (Jan. 1973) Gules, a roundel so drawn as to represent a round shield battered in long and honourable service, argent (one CD for adding the raven but nothing for the artistic details of the roundel), the device of Bran mac Oengus (Aug. 1977) Gules, on a plate between three death's heads argent, a raven rising, wings elevated and displayed, sable (one CD for the death's heads but nothing for the slight change in the posture of the raven), and the device of Anders Knudsen (Oct. 2004 Atlantia) Per fess vert and sable, on a plate an eagle rising, wings elevated and displayed, sable (one CD for the field but again nothing for the posture only of the tertiary bird.)
Hunith Hen - New device
Argent, a dragon's jambe erased, talons to chief, gules armed sable.This conflicts with the badge of Reinald FitzAlbert de la Tour Phénix (May 1983 Middle) Argent, an eagle's leg erased à la cuisse gules enflamed proper. There is no difference between clawed feet, nor for the details of enflaming or arming, so at most a single CD exists for orientation of the charge. We would need to check Reinald's emblazon to be certain that there is any difference at all.
Jacob Redbrook - New name and device
Argent, a bend wavy between a bull's skull(?) cabossed and a Latin cross gules.Jacob is a masculine given name of Biblical origin found in England c. 1250.
Redbrook is a modern English locative; the submitter's documentation does not establish the use of this spelling in period (the sole period date is for the King's Mill.) We were unable to find period instances of the spelling -brook, though similar spellings exist. We are returning the name for consultation as to which alternative the submitter might prefer since the device must be returned.
The major problem with the device is the charge in sinister chief. Blazoned by the submitter as a bull cabossed, the indentations at the eye sockets make it something confusingly between a head and a skull. It needs to be clearly one or the other.
The bend could use more regular, and perhaps more, waves and is slightly on the skinny
side. The sides should be parallel throughout, not splaying at the ends.
Lucius Cassius Maris - New name and device
Argent grillage sable, a trident head vert.Lucius appears in the submitter's documentation as both a praenomen and a nomen.
Cassius appears in the submitter's documentation only as a praenomen, but can be documented as a nomen.
Maris, however, is not a spelling we could find in the submitter's documentation or elsewhere. With regard to the intended meaning "of the sea", we note that the submitter's documentation does include both Marinus and Maritimus as cognomens, either of which should convey the intended meaning or something similar.
It was the sense of the meeting that the trident head was not adequately identifiable
against the nearly parallel lines of the grillage, especially with so much of the barbs of
the tines set on a low-contrast background. As it is, the grillage covers about half the
field; cutting down on that a bit (somewhat narrower and/or fewer bars) should help.
Roksana zhena Barsuk - New name and device
Per pale azure and Or, a chevronel between a Latin Celtic cross, a goblet, and a ribbon tied in a bow all counterchanged, the goblet marked with a saltorel in canton elongated to sinister base argent.The submitter's citation from www.thinkbabynames.com does not provide useful support even for the spelling variants of Roxanne which it mentions, and Roksana is not among those. Neither were we able to find other period support for it.
It does not appear to us that the byname is correctly formed. Judging by my reading of Goldschmidt, it needs to be modified, e.g., to Barsuka or the like. My best estimate of a byname meaning "the wife of Anton Barsuk" would be "Antonova zhena Barsuka".
The device has multiple problems, many of which are grounds for return in themselves.
Sabrina de la Bere - New badge
(Fieldless) A bear rampant sable maintaining a rose slipped and leaved proper.Blazoned by the submitter as sustained, the only part of the rose which in any way approaches the size of the bear is the length of the stem. Stems and leaves are considered insignificant artistic details of most flowers, specifically including roses, so the length of the stem does not justify calling this sustained. Unfortunately, when the rose is properly regarded as maintained, this design comes into conflict with the civic arms of the city of Berlin Argent, a bear rampant sable, and the non-SCA arms of Francesca Petrarcha Or, a bear rampant sable holding in its forepaws three apples gules, both of which are protected by the SCA. In each case there is one CD for fieldless vs. fielded, but nothing for the maintained charges.
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