Minutes of the September, 2011 Heralds Meeting

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The meeting was held on Sunday, 11 September 2011, in Stockton. The meeting started at 12:30PM and ended at 1:55PM. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Eilis O’Byrne, Baldric; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, Exchequer; Ana Maria de Acosta, Deputy Exchequer; Vincenzo Saracini, Glora Fjord; Frederick of Holland, PaL; and Crimson.

Meetings were held on October 22 and November 20. There is no meeting in December 2011.
The usual Twelfth Night meeting will be held at the hotel at 10AM Sunday morning, January 8, 2012. All senior and branch heralds are expected to attend save those excused by distance and/or prior arrangement.

Time change: As my father has started holding Quaker meetings in our home some Sunday mornings, heraldry meetings will now start at 1:00 PM in order to avoid conflict. Please do not arrive before noon, as the (silent) Quaker meetings will run until then.

PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:

2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Contact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.

Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 12:30 PM to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.



Moira, Vesper- Gabriel is going to KWHSS next year (it being the same weekend as June Crown.) Vesper needs a deputy/successor. Roster letters are coming Really Soon Now.

Anne, Green Cloak – No report.

Ketiley, Banner- Banner was unable to attend Purgatorio. Rolf delivered the tabards to Moira. Banner has been mostly inactive.

Eilis, Baldric- Kingdom Collegium has asked for a class on choosing a name and device. Moira will probably teach this if Eilis is unable. The principal education focus at present is on classes at small local events, as these are getting better turnout than attempts to hold them at major events.

Owen, Matins – There are various interesting items in the LOAR. The lack of candidates and expressed interest in the Matins office is still a major concern.

Astri­, Latimer- The Brachet franchise meetings fell behind due to illness and Pennsic, but are working on catching up.

Gwenhwyfaer, Brachet- Meetings resuming to consider August submissions.

Hirsch, Golem- No report.

Gillian, Seawolf – No report.

Caoilinn, Sable Swan – No new business. There was a small court at Purgatorio for which their Highnesses have not provided a report.

Bianca, Stellanordica – Everything is on track. Consultation is active, including work with their Highnesses to get their submissions in. An effort is being made to ensure people have correct forms and documentation.

Maxen, exchequer- The College is solvent. The account signatures at the bank need to be updated.



The next regularly scheduled appearance of the consultation table will be in March. Special appearances at local events may be possible by prior arrangement with Latimer; we have actually been getting better turnout at some of these than at Crowns and Coronets.


VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. The meetings are held most Mondays at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym (Brachet) for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, .

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astri­ of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .


The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.


Cover letter

From Pelican: Kepe in placenames

One element that has been popular in SCA submissions but had not been documented in placenames is the Middle English Kepe and the Early Modern English Keep. Current precedent says that Keep and its Middle English form Kepe are registerable in contexts suitable for surnames, but not as placename elements (see the November 2001 and May 2011 LoARs for more details).

The complete lack of it in placenames or as a word was somewhat odd, as it is found in personal bynames as a generic toponymic through much of the Middle English period. Well, we've found it. Studies on Middle English local surnames by Mattias Teodor L÷fvenberg dates le Kepe as a placename to 1425 (along with Kepeland 1204 and Kepe mede 1530).

Therefore we can overturn the precedent disallowing the element Kepe or Keep in placenames; Kepe is found both as a standalone placename and as a protheme (first element) in English placenames and can be used as such. It is not clear that the element here is in fact the word meaning "castle," as that word is not otherwise attested before the 16th century. But it is registerable in contexts where a placename can be registered. This does not allow the registration of Keep as a deuterotheme (second element) in placenames; it remains unattested and will not be allowed without further evidence. We are also giving it the benefit of the doubt regarding the meaning and allowing the use of keep as a designator in the same contexts that we would allow a word like Castle.

From Pelican: New Names Resources

As many of you may have noticed, thanks to Edelweiss, we have a new resource that allows us to search parish records that have been transcribed as part of the IGI (International Genealogical Index) project. Most data in this project is not useful for us, as it is submitted by modern researchers doing genealogical research. However, this project also includes a large number of names transcribed by researchers directly from parish records; these names are reasonable documentation. The program can be found at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nmfadams/Edelweiss/IGI_Deliverable.zip.

People have asked how to cite these items as documentation. A simple printout, which you may have to produce by cutting and pasting the results into a word processing program, is sufficient documentation. Be sure to include all the information generated by the program, not just a summary of what you found.

I'd also note that we have been finding a variety of names in this data that I'd have never guessed were period names, including Erin, Jade, and Marci. So, I'd encourage submissions heralds to check this resource for undocumented names. If you can't do it yourself, ask for help. Or even send it up, and we'll give it a shot at the Laurel level.

We have checked several of the old SCA-compatible names, like Bronwyn, Rhiannon, and Keridwen; unfortunately the only two that we have found are Ian and Kathleen (both in English in the late 16th century).

From Pelican: Some Name Resources (a series)

This month I celebrate a year writing this series. In honor of that, I'm going to open a new set of issues: the articles and books I most frequently use to document names from a given time and place. I've already talked about Old English sources (in August 2010), so now let's talk about Middle English.

Middle English is the term we use for medieval English, from the time of the Norman Conquest in 1066 until aroud the middle of the 15th century. It is followed by Early Modern English, which lasts until well after the end of our period.

For Middle English, the print resources are superb. For surnames, Reaney and Wilson's A Dictionary of English Surnames is still in print, and Bardsley's A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames is downloadable from Google Books (though some other books by him are mislabeled as this book; one copy is at http://books.google.com/books?id=RbkEAAAAIAAJ). For given names, Withycombe's The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian names is unfortunately out of print, but copies of it are readily available on the used book market. For placenames, Ekwall's The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place şNames is out of print, but easy to find, and Mill's Dictionary of British Place-Names has replaced the earlier Dictionary of English Place-Names (the former is in print, the latter readily available as a used book).

Given these easily accessible and not very expensive print resources, it's not surprising that the online resources are not used as much. However, there are some good articles. One I use a great deal is Talan Gwynek's "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames" (at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/reaneyintro.html among other places). Another is Jeanne Marie Lacroix's "'Misplaced'" Names in Reaney & Wilson" (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/misplacednames.htm), both of which take data from Reaney and Wilson, one of these important print resources, and make it easier to find.

At this time, there's also a lot of regional variability in names and even in the language itself. If you're aiming for a particular time and place, Aryanhwy merch Catmael and others have collected data from particular parts of England. These can be found at the Academy of Saint Gabriel Library (under http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/eng1066to1300.shtml and http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/eng1300to1450.shtml, depending on whether you want 1066 to 1300 or after 1300).

In Middle English, then, we have an embarrassment of resources. Curiously Early Modern English data is somewhat harder to come by; we'll talk about that next month.

From Wreath Emeritus: Lamps

Commentary on a submission this month raised the question of the depiction of our default lamp in the SCA. Lamps in medieval times appear to have been short, flared cups, similar to the bowl area of a Champagne cup, but not as wide. They can be seen in the arms of Witwang, c.1520, in Heraldry by Bedingfeld & Gwynn-Jones. In contrast, the Society has uniformly not blazoned the type of lamp solely when the emblazon uses an Arabic lamp.

Since there does not seem to be a way to blazon the default real-world lamps with a qualifier, this month, we have reblazoned all the 'default' lamps in the Ordinary as 'Arabic lamps' and declare that the SCA-default lamp will match the real-world default. At least, it will once someone registers one.

From Wreath Emeritus: Mullets and Estoiles

Commenters this month raised the question of whether or not we should grant difference between mullets and estoiles in Society armory. In some times, in some places, they were considered interchangeable. Under our current standards regarding interchangeability, no difference should be granted. The cover letter to the June 1991 LOAR cites some evidence of their interchangeability, and we feel that it is time to once again discuss difference in these charges more thoroughly.

Therefore, commenters are asked to discuss, and to provide period evidence of, whether or not these charges should be considered equivalent for purposes of conflict, or we should continue to treat them as significantly different.

There is also evidence that the number of points on a mullet is interchangeable in period, while we grant difference in some cases. Commenters are asked to address the subject of whether or not a mullet should be a mullet and we should discontinue granting difference for the number of points on the mullet in all cases.

West Kingdom acceptances

Adam de Ansedleh. Name and device. Per fess sable and gules, a tree blasted and in chief three mullets of eight points Or.

Submitted as Edom de Ansetl Leah, the name was changed at kingdom to Adam de AnsŠtleh in order to match the documentation they could find. The submitter also requested authenticity for "10th to 12th century Scots-English." As Scots was not written down in this period, we take this as a request for an either Old English or early Middle English name.

Adam was documented as a masculine given name found in both Old English and Middle English contexts. Commenters were able to find evidence of Edom as a grey period (1606) given name, found both as a masculine and feminine name. It is therefore registerable. However, this will not meet his authenticity request.

The originally submitted locative element Ansetl Leah appears to be based on the etymological information, which gives hypothetical spellings. The dated Old English spelling is AnsŠtleh, as cited in the Letter of Intent.

The byname de AnsŠtleh is not registerable, as it is not grammatically correct. The preposition de is occasionally found in Latinized Old English, but it always requires a declined form, rather than the nominative AnsŠtleh. Based on other places ending with this element, the byname would be de AnsŠtlega.

Early Middle English spellings, suitable for his requested period, include Ansedlega 1180, Anselea 1174, and Hanslei 1086 (the middle one is from Watts s.n. Ansley, the others from Ekwall s.n. Ansley). Examples of other names that spell the second element -leh can be found in Middle English, including Alvaldeleh c. 1220 (Ekwall, s.n. Alvanley). Therefore, a spelling like Ansedleh is plausible for c. 1200.

As an early Middle English Adam de Ansedleh is closer to the submitted form than an Old English Adam de AnsŠtlega, we have changed the name to the first form. We note that Edom de Ansedleh is registerable as well, though the temporal distance between the c. 1200 byname and the grey period given name means that such a name would have a step from period practice.

Ana Maria de Acosta. Name and device. Sable, a goblet and on a chief Or, three pomegranates slipped and leaved gules.

There are multiple examples of people with two given names in Spanish (Castillian) from the 15th century on; there are earlier examples in Catalan. Some examples are the 15th century Juan Alonso Pimentel y EnrrÝquez and Berardino Fadrique EnrÝquez as well as the 16th century Miguel Jerˇnimo Vivez, Pedro Luis Galcerˇn de Borja y Castro, Maria Josefa Pimentel, and Juliana Angela de Velasco y Aragˇn (all from Julio de Atienza's Nobiliario Espa˝ol; elements are modernized).

Francesca Maria Lucretia Saracini. Name and device. Per bend sinister sable and gules, a crane contourny argent and three roses Or.

As multiple examples of people with three given names in 16th century Italy were presented in December 2008, the use of three given names in Italian was ruled at that time to not be a step from period practice.

Blazoned on the Letter of Intent as a heron, the charge lacks the long feathers atop the head which differentiate herons from cranes. We have, therefore, blazoned it as a crane.

Galen the Patient. Name and device. Azure, two chevronels couched from sinister argent.

Jonathan Chance. Device. Quarterly sable and gules, a cross and in canton a death's head argent.

Katherine of Danegeld Tor. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Argent, a bend sinister between two triquetras purpure.

Submitted under the name Katherine Robinson.

Kolbeinn ŮorgrÝmsson. Name.

A system of writing Old Norse names that includes thorn (Ů) and edh (­) but no vowel markings is reasonable, given examples found in period documents.

This is clear of conflict with the registered Kolbeinn Ůorfinnsson. The fathers' names are significantly different, as the second syllable of their names share no sounds in common. The patronymic bynames retain that difference; therefore, they are significantly different as well.

Lilla Št Sceaphylle. Name and device. Argent, on a lozenge quarterly azure and vert, a rose argent.

This is not arms of pretense, by precedent:

These are not arms of pretense under our current rules; RfS XI.4 limits consideration of arms of pretense to a single escutcheon. Laurel has previously ruled:

[on a lozenge argent a fleur-de-lys gules] As per the rules change in the cover letter to the June 2001 LoAR, the fact that the charged shape is not an escutcheon means that this is not an inescutcheon of pretense. ... While this armory is evocative of the city of Florence, whose arms are Argent, a fleur-de-lys gules, it is acceptable. [Alethea of Shrewsbury, 08/01, A-Lochac]

In the same manner, while the design of the lozenge is evocative of the arms of Dorcas Dorcadas, Sable, a three-headed hound rampant, one head reguardant, argent, langued gules, it is acceptable. [John Greywolf, July 2006, A-Ansteorra]

Were the charged lozenge considered to be a display of armory, this would have been returned for conflict with the badge of the House of York, (Fieldless), A rose argent. Fortunately, we do not consider it such, and we can register this device.

Mikael auraprestr. Name change from Juan Miguel Esteban Alfredo de Valencia and device change. Per pale vert and argent, three towers counterchanged.

His previous name, Juan Miguel Esteban Alfredo de Valencia, is retained as an alternate name.

Nice device!

His previous device, Per fess Or and vert, a falcon's head erased to sinister sable and a triple-towered castle argent, is retained as a badge.

Vincenzo Saracini. Name and device. Per pale sable and vert, a duck naiant contourny and a bordure Or.

Nice 15th century Italian name!

Please instruct the submitter to use some internal detailing on the duck.

West Kingdom returns

Katherine Robinson. Name.

This name conflicts with the registered Katryna Robin. The Rules for Submissions say "Two bynames of relationship are significantly different if the natures of the relationships or the objects of the relationships are significantly different." There was some call for this name to be ruled clear, as Robinson in a woman's name cannot be understood literally to be a claim to the relationship "son."

We are not allowing this reading for one theoretical reason and one practical reason. From a theoretical perspective, both Robin and Robinson have the same nature of relationship whether they are seen as literal patronymic bynames or as bynames expressing a more distant lineal relationship of undetermined gender. Therefore, whether literal patronyms or inherited family names from a distant ancestor, the relationships are the same.

From a practical perspective, we are not going to put in place a policy that says that for a woman, these two bynames are clear of conflict, but for a man, the identical bynames are not. Such a policy would also require us to determine for each such name conflict if either given name could be used for the other gender.

We note that if the draft rules are put in place in their current proposed form, these two names would be clear of conflict under the new rules.

Her device has been registered under the holding name Katherine of Danegeld Tor.

West Kingdom pends

Judith Greanwood. Badge. (Fieldless) Three estoiles conjoined at the points, one and two, argent.

This badge is pended so that the College of Arms can discuss whether or not we wish to continue to grant difference between mullets and estoiles. Please see the cover letter for more information.

If no difference is granted, this device will conflict with the augmentation of the kingdom of Meridies, (Fieldless) Three mullets one and two argent.

In Service,
Owen ap Morgan
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 11 September, XLVI (2011)


Rurik Varyag Velmudov - New name and device

Per fess argent and sable, a boar passant contourny gules and a cubit arm palewise, fist clenched, argent.

The submitter puts priority on "9-10th CE Rus Vik / Slavicised Rus" and states "Use of 'Varyag' in name is important to me."

Rurik is given as a transliteration of the Russian form of a Norse masculine given name in the article "Names of Scandinavians in the Byzantine Varangian Guard and in Russia" at http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/VarangianNames.shtml#TreatyNames under the list of names from a trade treaty dated 911.

Varyag is a transliteration of the Russian Варяг, which translates to "Varangian" according to http://www.tranexp.com:2000/Translate/result.shtml and so should be a plausible descriptive byname.

Velmudov is a Russian masculine patronymic formed from the name "Velmud", which latter is similarly listed in the Viking Answer Lady article cited above as coming from a trade treaty dated 907.

┌lfarr vei­ima­r Eysteinsson - Device resub to kingdom (July 2011)
Or, an orca urinant proper and in chief two ducks rising addorsed, wings displayed, vert.

The first attempt of Per saltire vert and azure, in fess two orcas haurient addorsed argent was returned in Apr. 2011 for conflict with the device of Roberto Giano (May 2000 Ansteorra) Azure, two dolphins haurient addorsed argent. The second attempt of Argent, an orca urinant in trian aspect, tail flexed to dexter, proper vorant a salmon, on a chief wavy azure a seax Or was returned in July 2011 for problems with the posture of the orca and identifiability issues with the orca proper on the argent field. The current submission has addressed the latter problems.


Trava Zapedova - New name and device

Argent, an oak tree eradicated and in base a heart gules, a bordure sable.

Trava is a masculine Russian given name according to Wickenden, which cites a Demeshko Trava from c1495 and a patronymic form Saltyk Travin from 1469.

Zapedova is a feminine Russian patronymic, supposing the existence of a given name Zaped. We have been unable to find this spelling either as a patronymic or a given name, and would substitute Zapadova based on Wickenden's listing of Zapad as a masculine given name (with a patronymic form Senko Zapadnich cited from 1552,) but the gender mismatch between the given name and the patronymic make this unregisterable.

Changing the gender of the patronymic is not an option; the submitter understandably desires a female name, and changing gender is regarded as a major change, which the submitter does not permit. Trava is the submitter's legal given name according to the form, and the legal name allowance might solve the problem, but we have no acceptable documentation of the legal name. Consequently the only option is to return the name.

The device needs some redrawing, but has no major issues. It cannot be sent on without a name, however.

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