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The meeting was held on Sunday, 10 July 2011, in Stockton. The meeting started at 12:40PM and ended at 2:40PM. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet; Eilis O’Byrne, Baldric; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, Exchequer; Caoilinn Rose Maddox, Sable Swan; Vincenzo Saracini, Glora Fjord; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Acting Black Mark; Zotikos the Cretan, Danegeld Tor; Frederick of Holland, PaL; Father Michael, PEaL (Oertha); and Ana Maria de Acosta.
COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
Future 2011 meetings are currently scheduled for August 21, September 11, October 23, and November 20. We do not presently intend to hold a meeting in December 2011. Meetings start at noon, unless otherwise announced.
PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:
2023 Oak Branch DrContact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.
We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list email@example.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at firstname.lastname@example.org. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.PERSONNEL -- RECENT CHANGES AND POSITIONS AVAILABLE:
Moira, Vesper- Known World was fun and interesting and I goy to meet Da'ud (yes, this is meeting report worthy). His class on Arabic Heraldry was fabulous. Also attended the class on Jewish names. The meet and greet with new and current people was enjoyable and Laurel staff all said that The West Rocks.
Anne, Green Cloak – No report.
Ketiley, Banner- (via Eilis) Gillian has the Ceremony Book and Court Tabard, and will be carrying it to Oertha. All court reports for their Majesties have been recorded and are now caught up to date.
Eilis, Baldric- Classes at Golden Rivers were rescheduled due to weather, and now will be held on July 30. They will be taught by Vesper and Sable Swan, due to Baldric traveling to Pennsic at that time. For future needs, we need to hold "refresher" courses for senior heralds in all fields (Court, Voice, Book, Submission, etc). The suggestion was made to hold refresher courses during a Heralds meeting, since there are no herald classes scheduled for A&S at this time. This will be looked into.
Owen, Matins – Matins would like to remind everyone that a successor needs to be found to start training now, as Matins will be around forever, but Owen will not be Matins forever. Yes, I will be harping on this until I get a response.
For those who may be wondering: The fundamental requirements for the Matins office are access to a computer with a page scanner and a decent internet connection, access to photocopying, at least moderate knowledge of book heraldry, and willingness to put in the time. (Those with expert knowledge of book heraldry aren't likely to vanish overnight and can - and should - be used as a resource.) It is not necessary to have space for the files and books; the current situation where everything is in one place is comparatively rare.
Comments are still open (through the end of July) on the second draft of the current revision of the heraldic Rules for Submissions. This draft runs 57 pages without the anticipated appendices, but is intended to be user-friendly. Laurel needs to know whether it succeeds. The text is available at http://heraldry.sca.org/rules2010/rules-2011-draft.pdf. Comments can be mailed to email@example.com.
LOARs are currently running about two months after the decision meetings; the office changes and Pennsic may extend this somewhat, but submissions have been fairly light recently. After receiving no new applications for Laurel, at their July meeting the Board of Directors appointed Master Gabriel andvaka Kjotvason of Northshield as the next Laurel Principal King of Arms, effective September 1 (which means this month's items are the first West Kingdom submissions which will be processed during his tenure.)
Astri, Latimer- Nothing to report apart from East Bay Brachet [see below].
Gwenhwyfaer, Brachet- We were up to date through the end of June, and we enjoyed one week of due to being caught up, and then one week off due to the holiday. Meetings are still being held every Monday at Bratchet's house.
East Bay Bratchet (by Flieg): Meetings have not been held for several weeks due to Latimer going away on vacation, and then catching a bug that came home with her. There will be a meeting next week, and then meetings will be suspended for a month due to Pennsic. Since reports were caught up through June, catching up will be smooth.
Hirsch, Golem- (in absentia) Nothing new to report.
Gillian, Seawolf – No report.
Caoilinn, Sable Swan – Investiture went smoothly but brought to notice that the ceremony books need repair and rewriting. The tabards are also in need of minor repair, which will be done by Golden Rivers Collegium.
Clare, Stellanordica – No report.
Maxen, exchequer- Training of a successor for the office is ongoing.
Earl P JonesSubmissions sent to other addresses may or may not reach Matins in a timely manner (or at all.)
ATTN: Matins Herald
2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton CA 95205
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VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.
MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at firstname.lastname@example.org.
ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at email@example.com -- answers may take a few days.
West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. The meetings are held most Mondays at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym (Brachet) for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, .
EAST BAY COMMENTING MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astri of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .
EXCERPTS FROM THE LOARThe cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.
APRIL 2011 LOAR
From Pelican: Clarification on the Use of Adjectives within the Designators of Order Names
In February, I was asked to rule whether Meridian Order of the Blade could be registered with a letter of permission to conflict with the registered Brotherhood of the Blade. I ruled that it could - that the addition of the adjective Meridian in the designator of an order name could be a sufficient difference to allow the registration of the item with a letter of permission to conflict. This is the same situation as the addition of the same adjective (or other forms of a branch name) in the substantive part of the order name.
I was probably not as careful in my wording as I might have been, as apparently the decision is being read by some as a more sweeping ruling that would allow the addition of adjectival forms of SCA branch names in the designator to allow the registration of a new submission without a letter of permission to conflict. This would be different than the current treatment of the same adjectival forms in the substantive portion of the name (which are registerable only with permission to conflict). I assure all that such a reading of the decision was not my intent and will not be upheld. In point of fact, the precedent says "Therefore, we rule the use of a kingdom name (here in an adjectival form) in the designator is sufficient to allow the registration of an item with permission to conflict, just as the addition of it to the substantive element is" (emphasis editorial).
Branch names, whether used in the substantive portion of an order name or in the designator, only contribute enough to difference to allow the registration of an item with a letter of permission to conflict. Let me apologize for any confusion that may have arisen because of the phrasing.
From Pelican: Regarding Requests for Reconsideration
This month, commentary on the request for reconsideration of the names Og the Red and Dagmar Halvdan made it clear that there are misunderstandings about the process.
Requests for reconsideration give submitters the right to appeal Laurel decisions when a submission was registered with changes. Before this policy was established, submitters whose names were changed in ways they did not like were forced to pay to fix the problems, while submitters whose names were returned were given the right to appeal those decisions without charge. In January 2003, submitters whose names were changed as the result of an authenticity request were given the right to request reconsideration. Often, this entailed dropping the authenticity request, but the policy also allowed for the presentation of data showing that a change was made in error.
In the 2009 rewrite of the Administrative Handbook, the decision was made to extend this privilege to all submissions. The goal is to allow submitters whose names are registered the same right to question Laurel's decisions as those submitters whose names are returned. The hope was that it makes it easier for submitters to allow changes, knowing that if they get a result they're unhappy with, they have recourse.
The language in the Administrative Handbook regarding requests for reconsideration explicitly parallels the language for appeals, with a few minor alterations. One important aspect of this policy is that there is no time limit to requests for reconsideration; the request does not need to be timely. New evidence that a change was made in error may be presented years or decades later (though we do not encourage waiting that long). However, requests to change a name to a form suggested by Laurel or by kingdom will not be honored if the request for reconsideration is not made in a timely manner. The one major difference between appeals and requests for reconsideration is that requests for reconsideration are treated like resubmissions for money purposes. That means that kingdoms may charge for them (after a year), but Laurel does not.
As with appeals, requests for reconsideration based on evidence that a change was made in error require the submitter to supply evidence that the decision should be changed (whether it's by citing a Laurel decision that says the name is registerable, by dropping an authenticity request, or by providing new documentation). However, as with appeals, we do not allow kingdoms to return requests for reconsideration: they must be forwarded in a timely manner with or without recommendation to Laurel. So even if the evidence seems flimsy, kingdoms are required to send them up to Laurel and let the College of Arms sort them out.
From Pelican: Some Name Resources (a series)
Documenting order names and heraldic titles is one of the frustrating jobs which falls to every kingdom and many baronial heralds. The standards for these non-personal names at this time are tighter than they historically were, but we also have better resources available.
Let's start with the resources. This is going to sound a little self-absorbed, but I got annoyed with the available resources a few years ago (all right, a decade ago) and started researching herald's titles and order names. It took a while, but finally came to fruition as two articles that substantially improved our knowledge of period practice.
For order names, we have "Medieval Secular Order Names" at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/order/new/ or at http://www.medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/ (they're identical in content, but formatted differently). Someday I'll get the religious order names done; for the moment I'll note that most were named for places. This article gives an analysis of patterns (noting that "other" isn't a pattern; it simply groups items that don't fit neatly in larger categories), standardized forms, and documentary forms.
For herald's titles, we have "Heraldic Titles from the Middle Ages and Renaissance" at http://www.medievalscotland.org/jes/HeraldicTitlesSCA/index.shtml. It again gives an analysis of patterns (noting that "other" isn't a pattern), standardized forms, and documentary forms.
So, what do you do with them? For any submission, you have to argue that the submission follows a particular pattern for creating that kind of name. Patterns are somewhat limited in time and space: a pattern documented for 16th century England is not automatically justifiable in Russia, or for 11th century England. However, there are patterns that were used broadly over Europe from the 14th to 16th century, and those are justifiable for more times and places.
Unfortunately, that means that some times and places are just out of luck for the creation of herald's titles and order names. We have no evidence that either were in use before the 12th century, and only a few patterns were in use before 1300. That means that languages that fell out of use before that time (Old Norse, Old English, Frankish, etc.) cannot be used to create heraldic titles or order names, as there are no patterns for them to follow. Herald's titles and orders were used broadly in Europe, even eastern Europe, but they did not spread further. Therefore, the registration of either a heraldic title or an order name in Russian, Arabic and other Middle Eastern languages, and Asiatic languages is not allowed. I know that it creates a difficult situation for those whose personas are from outside the main European powers, but those European powers are the home of the heraldic/chivalric game we play.
Patterns must be closely followed: evidence of the use of a vernacular color term is not evidence of the use of a heraldic color term, and "other adjective" doesn't mean "any adjective" (it just means that there are some that are hard to classify). Similarly, just because you joke about venerating some item doesn't make it a religious object of veneration for our purposes. Instead you must demonstrate that the object was venerated in period (or that it matches a pattern of objects venerated in period).
Having demonstrated that the submission follows a pattern, you have to demonstrate that the words within it are period and spelled in a period way (or justified as the lingua Anglica version of a foreign language name). Using the lingua Anglica allowance is a way to get modern spellings if you don't like the period spellings; just construct the order name or title in another language (French often does the trick). However, you still must justify the terms as period; the lingua Anglica allowance doesn't get you out of that hard work.
Finally, don't be afraid to get outsiders to help; and please do it before you get attached to an unregisterable name. Too many times, I've seen groups heartbroken when the name they want is ruled to not follow a period pattern.
From Wreath: A Four-Pointed Problem
The following precedent appeared on the December 2010 LoAR:
Lacking evidence that a mullet of four points was used in period heraldry, we are declaring the use of a mullet of four points a step from period practice. [Nasir ibn al-Khazzaz ibn Qadir, A-Atlantia]
A discussion on the SCAHRLDS mailing list provided several pieces of documentation for the mullet of four points in period heraldry. Raneke, in Svenska medeltidsvapen, has examples:
Volume II, p. 739, has "per pale (no tinctures), in the sinister half seven mullets of four points 2, 2, 2, and 1". (It is not the main blazon: it is further down in that section's text)
Volume II, p. 809 has "a chevron and in base a mullet of four points"
Other documentation includes the arms of Richard Slacke, Windsor Herald in the 15th Century: Azure a cross formy throughout per bend sinister ermine & or charged in the center with a mullet of four points counterchanged, which is on page 233 of Joseph Foster's Two Tudor Books of Arms (available through Google Books).
Therefore, the use of a mullet of four points has been shown to be period practice. All precedents saying that it is a 'weirdness' or a 'step from period practice' are overturned.
Even were all of the citations from Raneke, this would not be a regional style exception. The last paragraph of the July 2010 Documented Exceptions ruling reads: "This does not change standards for documenting charges new to SCA heraldry: a single example of the charge used in a period heraldic jurisdiction remains sufficient." All medieval heraldic jurisdictions are treated equally; preference is not granted to any jurisdiction, Anglo-Norman or otherwise.
West Kingdom acceptances
This name mixes English and Old Norse, which is a step from period practice. Uther is registerable as a literary name on the basis of its use in Arthurian literature. Commenters questioned how early the figure of Uther was known, because a literary name cannot (of course) predate the use of the name in literature. The story of Uther appears in Monmouth's 12th century History of the Kings of Britain. Given this, there is not a second step from period practice for temporal incompatibility, and the name can be registered.
The cross gurgity appears to be an invention of period heralds, mentioned in tracts, but never seen in period heraldry. The same sort of curved ends can be seen, in mirror pairs, in the cross moline. Therefore, though this cross was never used in period heraldry, its use is only a step from period practice.
Nice late period English name!
Submitted as Cormac an Ci˙in, bynames with similar meanings in Gaelic do not have the article an. Therefore, we have dropped the article in order to register the name.
The policy for changes of group designators was detailed in the Cover Letter to the July 2005 LoAR, "From Laurel: Territorial Designators", specifically the phrase "the listing in the database is not connected to the formal status of the branch, nor should it be." Had their badge submission (returned elsewhere on this letter) been accepted, the change would have been made automatically; this action would not have been necessary. The advancement of a group to a level at which it is allowed to register awards is brought to the attention to the CoA and Laurel by the act of that group submitting awards for registration.
Blazoned when registered, in 1979, as Vert, a fish salient, holding in dexter forefin a sword bendwise sinister, and in sinister forefin a round shield, argent, we are clarifying the relative size of the held charges and blazoning the posture of the fish using a term meant for fish, not a term meant for quadrupeds.
Adjectival descriptive bynames in Old Norse must agree in gender with the gender of the given name. As Ketiley is a feminine name, the byname must be hvit or inn hvita. As the first is the smaller change, we have changed it to that form in order to register the name.
Please instruct the submitter to draw deeper, more prominent waves on the line of division.
This name mixes a Russian given name with German bynames; this is a step from period practice.
There is a step from period practice for the use of a compass star.
Edelweiss was able to document Seraphina as a Spanish feminine given name in 1599 and Blackburn as an English byname from the 1550s on.
The combination of Spanish and English is a step from period practice.
Commenters questioned whether Gotfriedson was correctly constructed, given that the more typical Scandinavian form changes the paternal name Gotfried to a possessive form, to make the byname Gotfriedsson.
The January 2011 Letter of Acceptances and Returns cites several Swedish examples of the submitted pattern:
While [the possessive] spelling is more common, there are many examples in the SMP and in the article cited above that use the nominative form of names. Examples from the latter (which are feminine) include wolffdother, Ongrim dotor, RŠist dottir, Thi°lldother, Torbiorndotter and Biornd dotter.
Matins adds examples from Denmark:
And the entry for the feminine given name Helgha (col.495) gives examples of Helle Johansd: from 1423, 1434 and Hellj Jepsd: from 1610, which seems further confirmation that the genitive -s- is shown separately when it is present. Similarly the entry for Iuliana (col.701) shows both Iliana AkŠd: from 1429 and Elina Agesd: from 1480. On the whole, it appears that unmarked genitives are fairly unremarkable in Danish.
The Cretan is the lingua Anglica version of a Greek adjectival byname, Kretikos.
West Kingdom returns
Sails that appear to be displays of armory must be conflict checked as such:
Please note the following discussion which appears under Ăthelmearc for the registration of Marianna Molin di Salerno's device, Azure goutty d'Or, six lymphads sailing to sinister Or, each sail charged with a martlet volant to sinister gules, a base Or:
As noted on the LoI, a charged sail is not an inescutcheon of pretense under RfS XI.4; but as a display of armory, it must still be checked for conflict. In this case, Or, a martlet volant to sinister gules is clear of conflict. An anomaly of our rules is that, under these circumstances, conflict is not reciprocal. Thus the registration of Azure goutty d'Or, six lymphads sailing to sinister Or, each sail charged with a martlet volant to sinister gules, a base Or does not protect Or, a marlet [sic] volant to sinister gules. A charged sail must be clear of conflict at the time it is registered, but a different person could later register armory that conflicts with that sail.
[From Wreath: Charged Sails, October 2007, Cover Letter]
This sail is a display of Argent, two axes in saltire heads addorsed sable. This is a conflict with the device of Ungust filius Antonii, Argent, two double-bitted axes in saltire sable surmounted by a brown bull's head cabossed proper. There is a CD for removing the bull's head. It is also a conflict with the badge of Agravaine Rhiwallon, (Fieldless) Two axes in saltire sable, with a single CD granted to a fieldless design when compared to any other design.
Therefore, this badge is returned because the sail is displaying armory which has a conflict.
Owen ap Morgan
SUBMISSONS – 10 July, XLVI (2011)ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL
Aidan of Castlewood - New device
Azure, an oak tree and on a chief embattled argent, three frets couped sable.
The black spots visible on the tree are the caps of acorns, so this is not fructed sable. Since the acorns are artistic detail anyway, we decided not to go to the trouble of trying to blazon their caps.
Per pale sable and argent, in bend sinister two ravens rising contourny counterchanged.
Axel is a Danish masculine given name. Danmarks Gamle Personnavne, vol. I Fornavne A-K, (s.n. Absalon) attests multiple instances both as a given name and a patronymic root, ranging in date from Axel KŠtilss: in 1381 through Axel Laghess: in 1467.
Wrightson is an English surname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Wrightson) cite a Robert Wryghtson from 1379, while the IGI parish extracts attest multiple instances of the submitted spelling ranging from
AVEREYE WRIGHTSON Male Marriage 23 November 1563 Wintringham, Yorkshire, England ALICE STELE Batch: M009251 Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
through the end of period.
There should be at worst a single step from period practice for combining Danish with English.
Gules, a castle and in chief three mullets of eight points Or, a bordure compony sable and Or.
Client requests authenticity for 13th Century Spain (language/culture & time period).
Francisco is a Spanish masculine given name. The article "Medieval Spanish Names from the Monastery of Sahagun" by Antonio Miguel Santos de Borja (Tony Borning) at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/miguel/sahagun/sahagunNames3.html#names cites 2 instances of this name from documents dated from 1289-1300.
de Salamanca is a Spanish locative byname. The Universidad de Salamanca was founded in 1218 according to its web site at http://www.usal.es/webusal/en/conocenos.
The elements of the name can also be documented later in period from sources at heraldry.sca.org; I have used these in view of the authenticity request.
While Wikipedia does identify a "Francisco de Salamanca" from the 16th C (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_de_Salamanca), we see no reason to believe this individual is important enough to protect his name.
The consulting herald describes this as a Spanish artistic variant of the bordure compony.
Argent estencely sable, a sea-horse vert.
The submitter states a preference for the meaning of the name.
The original Haley Hrossmear was returned in Jan. 2011 for failure to document either part of the name. The second attempt of Haley Ăldit was returned in Apr. 2011; on that occasion she had documented Haley as her legal given name, but she provided inadequate documentation for the byname and stated preferences and an authenticity request which seemed inconsistent with what we knew of it. This is the third attempt.
Haley is the submitter's legal given name as shown on her driver's license, a redacted copy of which will be provided to Laurel.
an Eich Gil is a Gaelic byname. OC&M (s.n. Tadc) attests a "Tadc an Eich Gil ('of the bright steed'), who died in 1030." I don't know whether or to what extent this would need to be modified for use by a female, but the submitter permits all necessary changes.
The device is only technically a resubmission; the original forms, which could not previously be sent on for lack of a name, were used here.
We are aware that there will be discussion of this rendition of estencely, as there has been of another recent rendition. Since we do not, as of this posting, have a definitive result out of that other discussion we are sending this on for consideration.
Per pale purpure and sable, a wolf statant and in base a compass star within and conjoined to an annulet argent.
The submitter states a preference for the sound of the name.
Ydonea is an English feminine given name. Withycombe (s.n. Idonea) attests this spelling from 1203 and 1207, along with the close variant Idonea from as late as 1346 in period (as well as being the header spelling.)
Norwood is an English locative surname. This spelling is attested from 1598 in the article "English Names found in Brass Enscriptions" by Julian Goodwyn (mka Janell K. Lovelace) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/brasses/lastnameIZ.htm.
Regarding the charge(s) in base:
While it is not clear in the colored version, in the black-and-white outline it is apparent that the major points of the mullet do reach the annulet.
The submitter blazoned the combination as a compass rose; we have not because the major points do not extend beyond the annulet and the demi-fleur at the chief point is lacking. The submitter is aware of these details, as they were present in her accompanying badge submission.
ITEMS RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK
Iraklis of Samos - New name change from Lee Sharpeyes
Iraklis: The online Lexicon of Greek Personal Names at http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/online/downloads/documents/namfor2a.pdf includes both Ήρακλέως and Ήρακλης, coming from classical era Greek sources. We have not found (and the submitter has not provided) any reason to believe that "Iraklis" is a reasonable period transliteration. The online Prosopography of the Byzantine World at http://www.pbw.kcl.ac.uk/pbw/apps/ cites a single instance of "Herakleios" from ca. 1055, but nothing closer to the submitted name. The submitter's evidence regards "Iraklis" only as a modern name. As the submitter permits no changes whatsoever, we have no option but to return the name.
of Samos is a lingua Anglica Greek locative referring to the island of Samos.
Meurig and Rhys are Welsh masculine given names, both given as header spellings in the article "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones). Neither spelling, however, is cited among the documented period instances of the names. As the submitter failed to give sources for the spellings of the names he provided as documentation, this means support for the submitted spellings is weak.
That point is moot, however, as the name conflicts with the registered Meuric ap Rhys (May 2000, Outlands). The single letter of difference may be too close to register even with permission; the sounds are effectively identical.
Argent, an orca urinant in trian aspect, tail flexed to dexter, vorant a salmon, on a chief wavy azure a seax Or.
This is a substantial redesign of the previous submission, which was returned for conflict.
Unfortunately, the forms sent in were printed too small. We have repeatedly emphasized the need for the forms to be printed full-size, and the forms themselves tell you how large the image areas should be. If there were no other issues, we might consider photoenlarging the black-and-white line outline copy to send the submission on. That is not the case here.
The orca is not drawn in a period heraldic posture. We are not aware of urinant being drawn in this manner, where the body is angled and the tail bent over to resemble a numeral '7'. Further, urinant is properly a side view, while in this case the body is rotated so that the view is nearly as much from the top as the side. Such a view in "trian aspect" has long been ruled unacceptable for SCA heraldry save for that handful of objects (such as dice) which are found in period illustrations drawn that way.
The rotation of the body is also apparent because it conceals the white coloring of the "proper" orca's belly and sides. If that white coloring were not concealed, it might well cause problems with the ready identification of the charge against the current white field. While there is no longer an absolute ban on details sharing and adjacent to the field tincture, identifiability is still required. Changing the field to Or would remedy this and does not appear to introduce any conflict; coloring the orca a solid tincture rather than "proper" could also work.
Per pale purpure and sable, a compass rose Or.
Unfortunately, this conflicts with the badge of Walter de Witte (July 1989 East), Sable, a compass rose Or. There is only one countable difference for changing the field, and two are required.
The possibility was raised at the meeting that there might be no difference counted between a compass rose and a compass star. I have searched and found no support for this in prior Laurel decisions. While a compass star within an annulet is considered no different from a compass rose, the annulet appears to be a necessary element for this result. Consequently, I am not aware of any other conflict with the current design than Walter's badge.
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