Minutes of the April, 2011 Heralds Meeting

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The meeting was held on Sunday, 3 April 2011, in Stockton. The meeting started at 12:07PM and ended at 1:56PM. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet; Eilis O’Byrne, Baldric; Astriğ of Swansvale, Latimer; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, Exchequer; Frederick of Holland, PaL; Michael Clark, PEaL; and Loy Schiemann der Kleine.

Future 2011 meetings are currently scheduled for May 8 [held], June 5 [cancelled], July 10 [held], August 21, September 11, October 23, and November 20. We do not presently intend to hold a meeting in December 2011. Meetings start at noon, unless otherwise announced.

PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:

2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Contact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.

Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.

We are conducting some preliminary name research through the West Kingdom heraldic consultation mailing list wkheralds_consults@yahoogroups.com . This list is open to all those interested in West Kingdom book heraldry: both names and devices, and either to contribute or to ask questions. To join the list, please subscribe through Yahoo or at wkheralds_consults-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. If you subscribe by e-mail, you can complete the process by replying to the confirmation e-mail; it is not necessary to log in to Yahoo. Please note that initial posts are moderated and thus may not appear on the list immediately.



Moira, Vesper- Vesper will be traveling to Oertha, along with Baldric, to teach classes and assist with Officer training.

Anne, Green Cloak – Nothing to report.

Ketiley, Banner- No report.

Eilis, Baldric- Baldric will be traveling to Oertha along with Vesper. Also, there is a plan to attend Southern Shores and Golden Rivers Collegium to hold a track of classes.

Owen, Matins – Laurel is starting to catch back up; the January LOAR has been published, and February is in process. Laurel has made recent announcements regarding technical details that need careful attention, such as branch submission petitions (see below) and the need to acknowledge each and every change made to submissions at kingdom. We need to be more careful checking name conflict; we missed seeing a registration conflicting with Bran MacMurrough because the registered item used the Gaelic spelling. This may mean we need an experienced herald checking the Armorial at all times [but even with that, the April meeting overlooked the registered Katryna Robyn while we were checking Katherine Robinson.] Name conflicts can be tricky; if you don't know enough to be certain something isn't a conflict, ask someone who does know.
The applicants for the three sovereign positions (Laurel, Pelican, and Wreath) were announced in the January 2011 LOAR cover letter. These are:
For Laurel, Alexander Ravenscroft, current Torch Herald for Meridies.
For Laurel, Gabriel andvaka Kjotvason, currently an untitled Laurel commenter from Northshield.
For Pelican, the incumbent Juliana de Luna.
For Wreath, Emma de Fetherstan, current Star Principal Herald of Ansteorra.
[All current offices are according to the roster page in OSCAR, which may or may not be up to date.]
The BOD will accept commentary from anyone regarding the candidates. Originally the decisions were to be made at the April 2011 BOD meeting, so that the new sovereigns could be installed at KWHSS in June. While this may still happen for Wreath and Pelican, on Mar. 18 the BOD (via the SCA Announcements e-mail list) issued a new call for resumes for the position of Laurel, with a deadline of June 1 for submitting resumes. Based on this I do not expect a new Laurel to be chosen before July, with installation depending on how fast the new sovereign can be brought up to speed on procedures. Given past history, the BOD has reason to be cautious about who they install as Laurel.
As you can see, the West Kingdom College is not the only one having difficulty recruiting applicants for top heraldic positions.

Astriğ, Latimer- (not attending, report by Frederick of Holland) We had a submission table at Golden Rivers Championship, and had almost 3 hours of interest. The suggestion is to have the ability to hold more "pick-up" consult tables at local events and practices where people are generally more relaxed and less overscheduled than at big events like Crown.

Gwenhwyfaer, Brachet- Meetings in Sacramento on Mondays have been well attended. We have finished January, and are starting on February with the goal of being completely up to date by the end of April. We have a suggestion to hold a Bratchet meeting at the end of the Monthly meeting, when there is enough time, to foster training. East Bay Commenting Meetings are reported to be about one month behind.

Hirsch, Golem- No report.

Gillian, Seawolf – No report.

Zaid, Sable Swan – Intent is given to give up the office at Spring Coronet, dependant on final approval of their Highnesses. Vesper has already approved the potential successor.

Clare, Stellanordica – No report.

Maxen, exchequer- Domesday is done. Currently, we are training a potential successor. Bank account signatures remain an issue. We still need signatures from Vesper & the potential successor.


This year's Known World Heraldic and Scribal Symposium will be held in Atlantia, in High Point, North Carolina on the weekend of June 24-26, 2011. The symposium is a chance to meet top heralds from throughout the Known World and take classes at various levels. If you care to attend, it's not too soon to be making arrangements. See http://kwhss.sca.org/ for more details.


VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. The meetings are held most Mondays at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym (Brachet) for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, .

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings have changed location and are now in Walnut Creek on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astriğ of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at .


The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

There was no new LOAR published between the March and April meetings.

In Service,
Owen ap Morgan
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 3 April, XLV (2011)


Cormac an Ciúin - Device resubmission to kingdom

Per pale sable and argent, all estencely counterchanged, a caltrap within a bordure per pale argent and sable.

The previous version (whose only relation to this is the tinctures used) was returned in Jan. 2011 for artistic issues which made the elements unidentifiable and for conflict (which existed regardless of how the elements were interpreted.)

The caltrap and bordure are not blazoned counterchanged to clarify that there are no sparks on them. This is a standard practice where the possibility of confusion exists.

Helga skjaldmær - Device resubmission to kingdom
Gyronny argent and gules, a horse's head couped sable within a bordure sable estencely argent.

The previous submission of Gyronny gules and argent, a horse's head within a bordure sable was returned in Jan. 2011 for conflict with the device of Bela Aba, Quarterly gules and Or, a horse's head couped within a bordure sable. The submitter has added the sparks to the bordure for the necessary second CD.

The term sable is repeated to avoid the possibility of confusion as to whether there are sparks on the horse's head. This is standard practice.

Petronella Alexander - New name and device
Azure, an amphora and on a chief argent three bunches of grapes purpure, slipped and leaved vert.

Petronella is an English feminine given name. Withycombe (s.n. Petronella) attests this spelling from 1207 and 1303.

Alexander is an English surname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Alexander) attest a 'Thomas Alexander' from 1283, which also shows the pattern of the name as a whole.

Sof'ia Stepanova doch' - New name change and device resubmission to kingdom
Per saltire purpure and azure, a peacock its pride within a bordure argent.

Sof'ia is a Russian feminine given name. Wickenden (s.n. Sof'ia) attests this spelling from 1396. (While the font may not make this apparent, there is an apostrophe after the 'f' in Sof'ia, here and throughout this submission.)

Stepanova doch' is a Russian feminine patronymic byname. Wickenden (s.n. Stepan) attests "Nastas'ia Stepanova doch'. Before 1478." This also shows the pattern of the name as a whole.

The previous version of the device (without the bordure) was returned in July 2010 for artistic issues and for conflict with the device of Jumanah bint Nur al-Zarqa' (Feb. 2004 Atlantia), Per bend Or and vert, a peacock in his pride argent. The bordure has been added to provide the necessary second CD, and the peacock is now modeled on the one found in the Pennsic Traceable Art.

Stephen Payton - New name

Stephen is an English masculine given name. The article "Masculine Given Names Found in the 1523 Subsidy Roll for York and Ainsty, England (sorted Alphabetically)" by Karen Larsdatter (Karen Harris) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/york16/given-masc-alpha.htm attests six instances of this spelling.

Payton is an English locative byname. Bardsley (s.n. Payton) attests an "Edward Payton" from 1594. This also shows the pattern of the name as a whole.

Úlfarr veiğimağr Eysteinsson - New name (see Returns for device)

The client desires a masculine name, states a preference for the Old Norse language and meaning "the hunter", and requests authenticity for 9th-11th century Norse language and/or culture.

Submitted as Úlfarr veiğikonungr Eysteinsson, with the byname stated to mean "the hunter", we believe that this byname actually derives from veiği "hunting" + konungr "king" and is thus a presumptuous claim to being a "hunting king". (The submitter's documentation is from a Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudr%C3%B8d_the_Hunter about Gudrød the Hunter, said to be "a semi-legendary king".) We have substituted a byname from Geirr Bassi meaning "hunter"; the submitter has agreed to this substitution in e-mail correspondence.

Úlfarr is an Old Norse masculine given name. Geirr Bassi (p.15) attests 5 instances of this spelling.

veiğimağr is an Old Norse descriptive byname. Geirr Bassi (p.29) attests this spelling as meaning "sportsman: hunter, fowler, fisher, etc.".

Eysteinsson is an Old Norse masculine patronymic byname. Geirr Bassi (p.9) attests 15 instances of the root name Eysteinn and states (p.17) that names ending in -nn form the genitive -ns, giving the example of Sveinn forming the masculine patronymic Sveinsson.

Based on this information, we believe that the name as presented here meets the submitter's request for authenticity.

Zaid al-Fallâh al-Hajji - Name change resubmission to kingdom

Originally submitted as Zaid al-fallah hajji, this was returned at kindom in Dec. 2010 for failure to document the bynames; while hajji could have been fixed, we found no documentation whatsoever at the time for al-fallah. The submitter has since found support for something similar, and has consented to resubmit in the current form.

Zaid is a masculine ism. The article "PERIOD ARABIC NAMES AND NAMING PRACTICES" by Da'ud ibn Auda (David B. Appleton) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm documents the alternate transliteration Zayd.

al-Fallâh is a nisba used by two Nabhân Imams of Oman according to the book Oman: the Islamic democratic tradition by Hussein Ghubash, available in preview at http://books.google.com/books?id=_THrffCFeKEC&q=al-Fallah#v=snippet&q=al-Fallah&f=false, which lists al-Fallâh ibn al-Mohsin from 1154 and Makhzûm ibn al-Fallâh apparently from the early 1400s (both p.206). Presumably these are the same individuals identified in the book History of the Imams and Seyyids of Oman by Salil-Ibn Razik, available in preview at http://books.google.com/books?id=LuvpDTkkF7sC&q=al-Fellah#v=onepage&q=Fellah&f=false, as El-Fellâh-bin-el-Muhsin (p.41) and Makhzûm-bin-el-Fellâh (p.43). The latter book also lists 'Arâr-bin-el-Fellâh-bin-el-Muhsin (p.41), likely the same person identified in the former book as Arâr ibn Fallâh (p.206). The submitter permits changes, but would like to stay as close to the spelling al-fallah that he has been using as consistent transliteration permits.

al-Hajji is a laqab describing one who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj). The article "Andalusian Names: Arabs in Spain" by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith, julias@alumni.pitt.edu) at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/andalusia.html documents the variant al-Hajj but I understand from e-mail correspondence with Da'ud that this submitted form is also valid. We respectfully request assistance in obtaining actual documentation of this assertion.

The use of an ism followed by two bynames appears to be possible, as the Fihrist by Abū'l-Faraj Muḥammad ibn Isḥāq al-Nadīm (translated by Bayard Dodge), Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., reprinted by Columbia University Press, 1998 lists:
Al-Hasan ibn 'Alī al-Hasan al-Basrī (p.456)
Naṣr ibn 'Āṣim al Du'alī, also called al-Laythī (p.87, identified as Naṣr ibn 'Āṣim al-Laythī al Du'alī in the index p.1070)
Aḥmad ibn Sa'd al-Iṣbahānī al-Kātib (index p.949)
Abū Ziyād al-Ṣamuwī al-Kilābī (p.103)
Mu'arraj ibn 'Amr al-Sadūsī al-Ijlī (p.104)


Andrew of Viklund - New name and device

Vert, three triangles conjoined one and two and a chief embattled Or.

The client provided no documentation for the name, and we have been unable to find "Viklund" either as a place name (as used here) or in any other form. Lind has a byname "viglundr", but this would not be compatible with the English "of". We might be able to construct "Lundvik" as a place name. The necessary changes to use either of these would constitute a major change to the name, and the client does not permit such.

Without a name, the device must be returned in any case; the fact that the client does not permit even Laurel to form a holding name merely caps that. Some concern was expressed at the meeting that the chief as drawn bears too close a resemblance to a label; the client might consider redrawing it thicker at the top and with embattlements extending down along the edges of the shield.

Haley Ældit - Name resubmission to kingdom (Jan. 2011)

The client's previous submission was returned for failure to document that Haley was her legal given name and for using an undocumented byname. She has now remedied the former problem, but the only documentation given for the (new) byname used here is:

ÆLDIT: meaning all day 1066, English - found in the St. Gabriel's web site
St. Gabriel's is not monolithic; it consists of a large number of articles and reports, so further specification is necessary for the source of this information. The reports are searchable, but this byname is not found there. Further, the client states a preference for the meaning "horse handler, seahorse, river/water horse, ect. [sic]", which bears no relation to this name, and requests authenticity for "10-12th Century English/Irish" (which cannot be accommodated in view of the need for the Legal Name Allowance for the given name.) We choose to return this for further consultation and clarification rather than struggle to obtain something the client may not, in fact, desire.

Her device submission, returned in Jan. 2011 solely for lack of a name, is still pending.

Úlfarr veiğimağr Eysteinsson - New device
Per saltire vert and azure, two orcas haurient addorsed argent.

This conflicts with the device of Roberto Giano (May 2000 Ansteorra) Azure, two dolphins haurient addorsed argent. There is only one countable difference for changing the field, as we count no difference between dolphins and orcas, and the postures and tincture of the charges are the same.

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