Minutes of the August, 2010 Heralds Meeting

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MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 22 August XLV (2010)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 22 August 2010, in Berkeley, CA. The meeting started at 12:40 pm and ended at 02:40 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Matins; Moira O’Connor, Vesper; Na'arah bat Avraham, Banner; Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Brachet; Eilis O’Byrne, Baldric; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, Exchequer; Jared of Castlewood, Pinnacle; Aasa Thorvaldsdottir, Black Mark; and Frederick of Holland, PaL.

COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
The meeting schedule is September 26, October 24, November 13 (Saturday at Collegium Occidentalis), December 12, 2010. The first meeting in 2011 will be January 9, 2011 at 12th Night. Meetings start at noon, unless otherwise announced.

PLEASE NOTE: Unless and until specified otherwise, the regular meetings are now taking place in Stockton at the home of Owen ap Morgan, Matins Herald:

2023 Oak Branch Dr
Stockton, CA 95205
(209) 463-6861 (message)
Contact Owen for directions. The drive is approximately an hour from Sacramento and an hour and a half from either Berkeley or San Jose via Livermore.

Walk-in submissions are generally permitted but not encouraged, as they do not allow for advance review and prep work.. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be pulled or set up. For meetings not held in Stockton (Collegium, 12th Night, etc.) sufficient advance notice to pull any existing file will be required.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@yahoogroups.com. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please subscribe at wknames-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

PERSONNEL -- RECENT CHANGES AND POSITIONS AVAILABLE:


REPORTS

Moira, Vesper- All but 18 roster letters are back. Missing several branch herald roster letters. Will be in contact with branch seneschals to remedy this situation.

Anne, Green Cloak – Needs volunteers for tournament at Purgatorio.

Na’arah, Banner- Has ceremonies for Barony of Fettburg. Been working with incoming heralds of Fettburg and Westermark to get those baronies' court heralds/heraldry up to Kingdom Standard. Purgatorio has lots of court. Will be needing help.

Eilis, Baldric- Collegium - November 13. There is a whole Heralds track for this event. Class suggestions: what to do with your heraldry, Blazon Theory, What do the Heralds do? Need to query the populace again to see what heraldry classes people would be interested in taking.

Owen, Matins – Meeting relocation to Matin's home in 2023 Oak Branch Dr., Stockton. Directions and notices will be being prominently posted. Need to make arrangements to collect folders still in his predecessors care. Otherwise, handoff has been smooth. First LOI was submitted in a timely fashion to OSCAR. Been combing through the College Library to note useful volumes and references that may have not been known to be available. Suggests at the next meeting going through the the collection to determine what should be culled from the reference library as not reliable or useful.

Astrið, Latimer- No consultation until Collegium. That one will be an all day consult. Help is requested for that event consult. Monthly Matins meeting for November will be held at Collegium.

Gwenhwyfaer, Brachet- Meeting is happening, has increased interest and attendence. 1/3 of the way through July letters. And comments have been added to OSCAR.

Hirsch, Golem- No report.

Gillian, Seawolf – No report.

Zaid, Sable Swan – No report.

Clare, Stellanordica – No report.


ANNOUNCEMENTS

SUBMISSIONS GUIDELINES
UPCOMING EVENTS
Fall Collegium - pending

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

VOICE HERALDRY: Greencloak will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Moira at herald@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

BRACHET MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. The meetings are held most Mondays at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym (Brachet) for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, .

EAST BAY COMMENTING MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. These meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Latimer Herald, Astrith of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at or Eilis at 510-486-0633.


EXCERPTS FROM THE LOAR

The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

April 2010 LOAR
Cover letter:

From Wreath: Drinking Horns
Last month, there were a number of reblazons of pairs of drinking horns to match the newly defined default. Unfortunately, the new default was only stated in the acceptance for Óláfr Starkaðsson. We repeat and expand it here so that it is not overlooked.
There has been no consistency in which part of the horn is the 'back', so 'horns addorsed' are not well defined. We have decided to define the longer, outer part of the curve as the back. The horns in Óláfr's submission are back-to-back, which makes them addorsed. Horns with the points facing towards each other are respectant; a "pair of drinking horns" is assumed to be respectant (it need not be blazoned). "Two drinking horns" will have both inner curves (fronts) pointed to sinister. All drinking horns will open to chief by default.

[Matins comment: A default charge generally has its front to dexter.]

From Wreath: Divided Fields, Tinctures, and Strewn Charges
A submission this month asked for clarification on the subject of strewn charges on only part of a plain field. The LoI quoted the following precedents:

[Per bend sinister argent and argent semy-de-lys sable, on a bend sinister gules a sword inverted Or, in chief an elephant head cabossed sable] Current precedent disallows strewn charges on only part of a plain field, even when the field has a "natural" division such as an ordinary (see July 1998 LoAR, Miriel MacGregor), barring evidence that such fields were used in period armory. [Bohémond le Sinistre, 01/2001, Outlands]
and
[Per chevron pean and sable, on a chevron Or ...] It was the consensus of the College that a divided field in which the two parts are tinctures that share the same background is allowable if there is an ordinary to aid in the separation of the two parts, though the practice is not documented. [Thorgrimr inn kyrri, 02/2001, Atlantia]
The difference between the two is that an ordinary or other natural division is allowed to correct the style problem for tinctures, but not for strewn charges. Tinctures, even the ermined furs, are considered a single entity, not a field with charges strewn upon them. Charges may not be strewn on only one half of a divided field, even in the presence of an ordinary dividing the halves, when the halves share the same background tincture.

West Kingdom acceptances:

Annora Raines. Device. Per pale gules and Or, a fleur-de-lys counterchanged Or and sable.

This device is clear of the badge of Yseult de Cherbourg, (Fieldless) Two swords in saltire per pale sable and Or surmounted by a fleur-de-lys per pale Or and sable, by X.1. In Yseult's badge, the swords are the primary charge group and the fleur-de-lys is an overall charge group.

Breock of Whitby. Reblazon of badge. (Fieldless) In pale an urchin statant atop a strawberry fesswise reversed proper.

Blazoned when registered as (Fieldless) A brown urchin statant atop a strawberry fesswise reversed proper, we are adding information about the relative size of the charges. They are co-primary charges. In addition, an urchin proper is brown with a white face and belly, while a brown urchin proper would be all brown. The urchin in this emblazon has a white belly.

Conrad Jäger von Thüringen. Name.

Cynehild Cynesigesdohtor. Name change from Clare de Norwude.

The submitter requested authenticity for 9th-10th C Anglo-Saxon. The only example of Cynehild that we found is from a book written by someone who died in the middle of the 8th C. Lacking later examples of the name, we cannot confirm that this name is authentic for her desired period.
Her previous name, Clare de Norwude, is retained as an alternate name.

Faolán an Fhasaigh. Name and device. Sable, a wolf passant reguardant and on a chief invected argent two Thor's hammers sable.

The documentation for the name was not adequately summarized on the LoI; neither the URL for the cited article nor the gloss of the byname were listed. Had the commenters not provided the missing information, we would have been forced to pend or return this submission.

Faolán an Fhasaigh. Badge. Sable, a wolf's head erased contourny and on a chief invected argent two Thor's hammers sable.

Gwynaeth de Sancta Maria de Petra Fertilis. Reblazon of badge. Or, in pale an iris purpure slipped and leaved vert issuant from a rock fracted sable.

Blazoned when registered as Or, issuant from a rock fracted sable, an iris purpure slipped and leaved vert, the charges are co-primary.

Irja Laulaa. Reblazon of badge. Azure, a pellet fimbriated and winged Or.

Blazoned when registered as Azure, a sun eclipsed, winged Or, the central charge is a roundel, not a sun.

Lleucu Bengam. Name.

Margrethe of Traeet. Reblazon of device. Or semy of pine trees couped, a daisy proper.

Blazoned when registered as Or, semé of Jerusalem Pine Trees, overall a daisy flower proper. [Pinus halepensis, Bellis perennis], the blossom is not overall. One of the trees is partially cut off, but this is a frequent depiction of semy charges around (and underneath) a primary charge.

Roger the Goliard. Reblazon of badge. Azure, on a demi-sun issuant from base Or in fess a mandolin bendwise sinister, a recorder bendwise, and a wood-framed tambourine all proper, in chief three doves volant argent.

Blazoned when registered as Azure, issuant from base a sun Or debruised of a mandolin, a recorder, and a tambourine, all proper, in chief three doves volant argent, that blazon has the instruments as overall charges. The emblazon shows them entirely on the sun. While there is not really any way to blazon the arrangement of the instruments, we have done our best.

West Kingdom returns:

None.

In Service,
Owen ap Morgan
Matins Herald


SUBMISSONS – 22 August, XLV (2010)

ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL

Alizan De la Fontaine - Resub name change (kingdom, Aug. 2009)

Name change from Alison Gray of Owlwood.

Her original name change submission in 2004 was made at the time of her elevation to the peerage, and so no fee was required per Western tradition. When she resubmitted in 2009 it was decided that this no longer qualified as "at the time of elevation" and therefore a fee would be required. That fee has now been provided.

Alizan is a French feminine given name. Academy of Saint Gabriel report #2904 lists it as a name appearing in a 1446 tax record from Lyon. http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/2904.txt

De la Fontaine is a French surname. The submitter provides a citation from A Tale of the Huguenots, or Memoirs of a French Refugee Family. Translated and compiled form the original manuscripts of James Fontaine, by one of his descendants. published by John S. Taylor, New York, 1838. This text may be found digitized online at http://ia311036.us.archive.org/1/items/taleofhuguenotso00font/taleofhuguenotso00font_bw.pdf. The author asserts that the family name was originally "De la Fontaine" and that a "John De la Fontaine" was born "about the year 1500". The table of contents, however, appears to refer to this same individual as "John de la Fontaine". Further, the use of "John" and "James" suggests that the names have been altered to some extent.

The name "de la Fontaine" is cited from 1421, 1423, and 1438 in the article "French Surnames from Paris, 1421, 1423 & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Friedemann), found online at http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html , so at worst this is supported as "Alizan de la Fontaine" (which change the submitter permits if necessary.)


Eleanor atte Water of Liverpool - New name (see Returns for joint badge)

Submitted as Eleanor atte Walter of Liverpoole, the submitter's documentation for "atte Walter" was the web page http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/YALDnamesM.htm, whose authority may be estimated by the introductory text "When the Normans arrived in 1066 people in England only had a single personal name. . . . In the 12th century the Norman rulers began encouraging people to adopt surnames." The documentation for "of Liverpoole" was a printout purportedly from http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=ConNarrative.119, which I have been unable to access. The printout does not show the spelling "Liverpoole" in the text; the graphic image of a 1207 document is not legible as printed. Neither have we found alternate documentation for the bynames as submitted.

We have (with telephone consultation with the submitter) substituted spellings for which we have more reliable documentation.

Eleanor is an English feminine given name. Withycombe (s.n. "Eleanor(a)") refers to "Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122-1204)" and "Eleanor of Castile (died 1290)", and further states "From the 12th to the 15th C the name usually appears as Alienor, Eleanor, Elianor."

atte Water is an English locative byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Water) cite "William atte Watere" from 1296 and "Thomas del Water" from 1246, saying this refers to one who dwells near water.

of Liverpool is an English locative byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Liverpool) cite "John of Lyverpull" from 1401, showing the preposition; Bardsley (s.n. Liverpool) cites "Adam de Liverpool" from "temp. Edw. III" [1312-77], showing the spelling.

We have no specific support for the use of two locative bynames, where one is a local reference ("atte Water") and the other regional ("of Liverpool"), but neither do we consider it so implausible as to require return at kingdom.


Robert Hunteman - New name and device

Vert, a hunting horn and on a chief argent three talbots' heads couped sable.
Robert is an English masculine given name. Withycombe (s.n. Robert) cites "Robert(us)" from the Domesday Book and "Robertus" from 1186-1220, 1273.

Hunteman is an English occupational byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Huntman) cite "John Hunteman" from 1219 and from 1347.


Úlfar inn svarti Þórisson - Resub device (kingdom, Mar. 2009)

Per pale wavy azure and argent, a wolf passant contourny sable and in chief two decrescents argent and sable.
The submitter will be advised to use a somewhat lighter shade of azure.


William atte Water of Liverpool - New name (see Returns for device)

Submitted as William atte Walter of Liverpoole, the submitter's documentation for "atte Walter" was the web page http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/YALDnamesM.htm, whose authority may be estimated by the introductory text "When the Normans arrived in 1066 people in England only had a single personal name. . . . In the 12th century the Norman rulers began encouraging people to adopt surnames." The documentation for "of Liverpoole" was a printout purportedly from http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=ConNarrative.119, which I have been unable to access. The printout does not show the spelling "Liverpoole" in the text; the graphic image of a 1207 document is not legible as printed. Neither have we found alternate documentation for the bynames as submitted.

We have (with telephone consultation with the submitter) substituted spellings for which we have more reliable documentation.

William is an English masculine given name. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. William) cite a "Henry Fitz William" from 1300.

atte Water is an English locative byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Water) cite "William atte Watere" from 1296 and "Thomas del Water" from 1246, saying this refers to one who dwells near water.

of Liverpool is an English locative byname. Reaney & Wilson (s.n. Liverpool) cite "John of Lyverpull" from 1401, showing the preposition; Bardsley (s.n. Liverpool) cites "Adam de Liverpool" from "temp. Edw. III" [1312-77], showing the spelling.

We have no specific support for the use of two locative bynames, where one is a local reference ("atte Water") and the other regional ("of Liverpool"), but neither do we consider it so implausible as to require return at kingdom.


ITEMS RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK

Eleanor atte Water of Liverpool - New badge (joint with William atte Walter of Liverpoole)

(Fieldless? Argent?) A fairy hovering palewise purpure and a cormorant rising respectant sable.
The box was checked to make this a fieldless badge, but those are required to have all their elements conjoined. On an argent field this arrangement would be possible.

Fairies have never been registered blazoned as such. In order to register one, it would be necessary not merely to show that the concept of a fairy is period, but that this particular depiction of a fairy is period. Neither can we simply term it a "butterfly-winged woman":

"Butterfly winged creatures have been disallowed since the LoAR of 26 May 1983, when Laurel returned a butterfly winged Bengal tiger." - Apr. 1992 LOAR, R-Atenveldt, Rowena Montgomery McMichie
Further, the posture of the fairy (semi-erect, bent at the waist with one arm extended) is not amenable to standard terms of blazon and thus not likely to be reproducible, in violation of RFS VII.7.b.

The bird was termed a "liverbird" on the submission form, but the documentation submitted for that name is both unreliable (Wikipedia can be helpful in finding documentation when it gives sources for its information, but is not accepted as documentation on its own) and claims the first use of a similar term ("leaver") was in 1681, beyond even our grey area time period. For the moment, we are describing it as a "cormorant" since the available information suggests that the modern "liverbird" was originally a cormorant, but please note that the modern stylized depiction might also be an issue. In particular, actual cormorants have prominent tails, while this bird appears to lack one entirely.


William atte Water of Liverpool - New device

Argent, a cross gules and overall a cormorant rising sable.
This conflicts with the cross of St. George, "Argent, a cross gules", registered to England by Laurel in Dec. 1994. Adding the bird overall provides just one CD.

The bird was termed a "liverbird" on the submission form, but the documentation submitted for that name is both unreliable (Wikipedia can be helpful in finding documentation when it gives sources for its information, but is not accepted as documentation on its own) and claims the first use of a similar term ("leaver") was in 1681, beyond even our grey area time period. For the moment, we are describing it as a "cormorant" since the available information suggests that the modern "liverbird" was originally a cormorant, but please note that the modern stylized depiction might also be an issue. In particular, actual cormorants have prominent tails, while this bird appears to lack one entirely.


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