Minutes of the October, 2008 Heralds Meeting

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The meeting was held on Sunday, 26 October 2008, at the home of Eilis in Berkeley, CA. The meeting started at 12:30 pm and ended at 1:40 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Eilis O'Boirne, Vesper; Owen ap Morgan, Latimer; Astrið of Swansvale, Brachet; Na'arah bat Avraham, Banner; Wilhelm von Homburg, Baldric; Walraven von Nijmegen, Exchequer to the College; Elysant atten Oke, Sable Swan; Frederick of Holland, Richard Stewart, Kiriana Michaelson, and Maxen ap Owen, Pursuivants; Emma FitzWilliam, Acting Silver Gull Pursuivant; Felix MacAvady, Pursuivant for St. Katherines; Matilda FitzRichard of Lockaven, and Jared of Castlewood, Pursuivants Extraordinary; and Vigdís vestfirzka, Matins.

The schedule for meetings in 2008 is November 16. No December Meeting. Meetings start at noon, unless otherwise announced. The proposed schedule for meetings in 2009 are January 4, March 7 & 8, April 19, May 17, June 7.

The January 4th meeting will be held at the Ramada Inn in Santa Nella, CA. We would like to get started at 10 AM. All branch heralds are expected to attend. If you are unable to attend, please contact Vesper before the meeting.

In general, meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings will be announced well in advance.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Monday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@yahoogroups.com. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please subscribe at wknames-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.



Na'arah Banner: Courts happened. All good.

Astrith Brachet: Will be all caught up due to there being 5 weeks in October. Flieg will be running the first meeting in November. Please come to the meeting and help. VERY large letters have been coming in from the Middle to catch up with past Pennsic submissions.

Moira Greencloak: Crown happened. Thank you to the people who helped out.

Owen Latimer: Consultation table is happening. The new pavilion is working well. He would like to let folks know that he may need help setting up and packing down due to health. Feel free to stop by and check.

Wilhelm Baldric: Collegium is coming up. Requests & notifications for instructors will be going out this week. Classes will start at 10 AM. Site fee is $4 for members.

Hirsch Golem: Everything's working ...

Gillian Seawolf: no report

Elysant Sable Swan: Coronet is coming up. Need heralds.

Isabel Stellanordica: no report


From Matins Herald: Please note that the "line drawing" requirement for device submissions does NOT mean a b/w photocopy of the color form.

For name submissions, we need two copies of all name forms and all documentation source printouts and/or photocopies. For device and badge submissions, we need four colored copies plus an uncolored line outline. Please use colored felt tip markers. Please do not use colored pencil, pastel colors, crayons, color printers or color copiers. The artist's signature is required, but the submitter's signature is not required. If you are using restricted or non-standard elements or any other supplemental matters, we need two copies of your supplemental paperwork.

Please make sure that all submitters print their e-mail addresses clearly. A single mistaken letter makes the e-mail address useless.

We will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

Herald's Collegium is November 15. We will be holding it at Mechanic's Bank in Hercules, CA. Site opens at 9 am, site fee is $4 for SCA members & $7 for non-members.

KWHSS 2009 will be held in The Barony of the Lonely Tower in the Kingdom of Calontir September 4-7, 2009. This is Omaha, Nebraska.


SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Submission fees are $6 per name, $6 per device, $6 per badge - and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $10 instead of $12. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 2 copies of the name packet (form and documentation), 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the full size device form, and 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following this link: http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins Herald (c/o Sandstedt / PO Box 1346 / Sparks NV 89432-1346).

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis and Vigdís at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Astrith of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at or Eilis at 510-486-0633.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.


The LoAR for May 2008 was published in October 2008. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

Successor as Laurel is Mistress Olwynn ni Chinnéidigh, of the Kingdom of Atlantia. She will be working with Tanczos Istvan as Wreath and Aryanhwy merch Catmael as Pelican.

WEST - Acceptances - May 2008
(January 2008 LoI)

Clare de Norwude. Name and device. Azure, a bear passant argent between three mullets Or, a bordure argent.
For the 14th century (which is when the given name is dated), the spelling -wode is more typical than -wude, but the Middle English Dictionary has a few examples of -wude in the 14th century.

Clare de Norwude. Badge. (Fieldless) On a bear passant azure a mullet argent.

Étaín ingen Chellaig. Name and device. Per pale gules and azure, a lion rampant argent and in chief three chains bendwise sinister Or.
The submitter requested an authentic 12th C Irish name. This is a fine name for that place and culture.

Genevieve Elizabeth of Roseberry Topping. Name.
The byname was documented as a constructed spelling on the basis of this precedent:
Kateryn of Roseberry Topping. Roseberry Topping is the modern name of a hill that was recorded as Othenesberg in 1119, so there was some question as to whether the modern name is period; since topping in the sense of 'a hilltop' is Middle English, it seems likely that the name had assumed something like its present form by 1601. (In any case, Roseberry is a possible late-period reflex of a hypothetical Old Norse hross(a)-berg 'horse hill', so the place-name is at worst constructible.) [LoAR 09/1995]

Watts, Cambridge Dictionary of English Place Names, s.n. Roseberry Topping dates the form Rosebery Topping to 1610. As both -berry and -bery are common in Middle and Modern English place names, the submitted spelling is unremarkable.

Jocelyn of Rowenwood. Name.
Submitted as Jocelyn of Rowanwood, the byname was submitted as a constructed place name but no documentation was provided and none found to support the spelling Rowan-. We have changed the name to Jocelyn of Rowenwood, a constructed place name based on Rowenham 1269 in Watts, Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-Names, s.n. Rownhams, from OE ruh 'rough', and Byrdwood 1532 in Watts s.n. Birdwood. Smith, English Place Name Elements, s.v. ruh shows this word combined with various deuterothemes including leah, making a combination with a Middle English form of the deuterotheme wudu plausible.

Muriel von Schrecken. Name change from Muriel NicCord.
The byname von Schrecken is grandfathered to her; she is the wife of Leon von Schrecken.

Her previous name, Muriel NicCord, is retained as an alternate name.

Susan Wilks. Name and device. Azure, a ship sailing to sinister and on a chief Or two bunches of grapes azure.
Blazoned on the LoI as a galleon, Green Anchor noted "I could go on at length about the distinguishing characteristics of a galleon, but the short version is that the only one shared by this vessel is that they both (usually) have three masts. The hull is wrong, the castles are wrong, and the sails are wrong." While the ship in this emblazon is not clearly a galley, a lymphad, or a particular type of ship, it is a ship. Given the wide variation of ships found in period heraldry, and the fact that ship emblazons (even for the same arms) changed over time, we have elected to simply blazon it as a ship. There is no difference granted between specific types of ships due to their mutable nature, nor between a generic ship and any given depiction of a ship.

Ulrich von dem Walde. Name and device. Per pale sable and gules, two dragons and on a chief Or a lion couchant sable.
This does not conflict with either Ulbrecht vom Walde (registered April 2003) or Eric von Wald (registered November 1989). The bynames are equivalent in all three cases, but the given names are all spelled significantly differently and their differences in sound are also significant. In the case of Ulrich vs. Ulbrecht, the addition of the two hard consonants in the second syllable is sufficient for significant aural difference. In the case of Ulrich vs. Eric, the change in vowel in the first, stressed syllable is a significant aural difference.

Volker von dem Walde. Badge. (Fieldless) Two tilting lances in saltire surmounted by a rose slipped and leaved argent.
As identifiability is maintained, the amount of overlap between the rose and the tilting lances, despite all being argent, is acceptable.

Zinaida Or"shinaia. Device. Azure ermined argent, a female sagittary rampant regardant and drawing her bow to sinister within a bordure engrailed Or.

WEST - Returns - May 2008
(January 2008 LoI)

Constantina von Ravenna. Device change. Azure, a chi-rho between in fess two crosses formy Or.

This device conflicts with the device of Gareth de Bailli, Azure, a Saxon feogh rune between two bars Or. There's a CD for type of secondary charges, but no difference for their placement: the placement of Gareth's bars is forced by the nature of the charges. The chi-rho has been previously ruled to be a single abstract symbol, such that it may not be used as the sole charge in an armory (Artus Quintus, February 2003); this makes it the heraldic equivalent of a single letter or rune. We do not grant difference between single letters, even when they are in different alphabets; we therefore cannot grant difference between a chi-rho and a feogh rune.

Loðhöttr Austmannaskelfir. Name.
This name has two problems. First, the given name was documented from Geirr Bassi, but this form is in fact not found in that source. The form in Geirr Bassi is Loðh{o,}ttr. The use of ö to represent the o-ogonek is a modern typographical convention which the College does not use:
Submitted as Björn Helgason, the ö is a modern typographical convention for the o-ogonek, which is represented as {o,} in standard SCA Da'ud notation:
Submitted as Þorbjörn Rauðfeldr, Þorbjörn was documented from Aryanhwy merch Catmael's article "Viking Names found in the Landnámabók" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/landnamabok.html). This source notes that the character ö is used to represent an o "with a reverse-comma hook on the bottom". This is the character o-ogonek, which we represent as {o,}. We have made this correction. [Þorbj{o,}rn rauðfeldr, 07/2003 LoAR, A-Atlantia]

We have corrected the name to Bj{o,}rn Helgason. [Bj{o,}rn elgason, LoAR 06/2007, West-A]

Secondly, precedent requires that Old Norse bynames which are not based on proper nouns or adjectives must be registered in the lower case:

Submitted as R{o,}gnvaldr Sax, descriptive bynames in old Norse are transcribed in all lowercase (see the October 2002 Cover Letter for details). We have changed this name to R{o,}gnvaldr sax. [R{o,}gnvaldr sax, LoAR 08/2004, West-A]

We would change the name to Loðh{o,}ttr austmannaskelfir to match the documentation and conform to current precedent, but the submitter allows no changes.

In Service,

Vigdís vestfirzka
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 26 October, XLIII (2008)


Diane the Dauntless     (Cloondara)     New Name and New Device

Per fess argent and Or, in pale a garden rose gules slipped and leaved vert and a lizard vert.
Submitter desires a female name and has not checked any change boxes. She cares most about "meaning".

<Diane> appears in Catelina de la Mor's "Sixteenth Century Norman Names". URL: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/cateline/norman16.html.

The HMS Dauntless is a Type 45 destroyer in the British navy, and this has been a popular name for British naval vessels for some time. The earliest citation for this word in English comes from Shakespeare's Henry VI, part 3, as noted in the OED. The play is dated 1593, which means the word is period, however the quote uses the term as "Let thy dauntlesse minde still ride in triumph".

Joan Winter     (Vinhold)     New Change of Name
Submitter's original name Joan le Harper was registered 1/04; if new name is passed, old will be retained as an alternate name. Submitter desires a female name.

<Joan> is from R&W (3rd ed) p. 256 under the header spelling John as Richard le Fitz Joan dated 1327. Also, s.n. Isembard, p250 cite a Joan Ysembard in 1243.

<Winter> is from R&W (3rd ed) dated c1113 and 1185 in the modern spelling under that header on page 496.

Séamus Don     (Silver Desert)     New Name and New Device
Quarterly vert and azure a bear's head cabossed Or.
Submitter desires a male name.

Séamus appears in OC&M on p.163 under that header. It says it is a borrowing from English of (ultimately) the Latin Jacobus, and was brought to Ireland by Anglo-Norman settlers. We are not familiar enough with Irish history to know what limitations this will place on the date.

Don is from R&W under the header Dunn (p145) as Jobin Don dated to 1271. It is a descriptive byname from an Old English word meaning "dark, swarthy".

There will be a step from period practice for combining a Gaelic spelling of the given name with an English byname.

Sighfridh hauknefr      (Cloondara)     Resubmission of Name to Kingdom / see Returns for New Device
Submitter desires a male name. He cares most about the sound of the name.

<Sighfridh> is from Nordiskt runnamnslexikon p. 81 under the header spelling Sig(f)røðr. Samnodisk database lists "Sigfridhr".

<Sighfridh> Fellows-Jensen, Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire Sig-:, p.346, 348 -fridh, (f)r{o/}{dh}r: ibid, p.19-20, 342, 348 No copies.

<hauknefr> is a descriptive Old Norse byname meaning "hawk nose" from Geirr Bassi, p22.

Üta Kathrina Felhamer     (Mists)     New Name / See Returns for New Device
Submitter desires a female name, accepts no MAJOR changes, and requests the name be made authentic to 1500's Germany.

Üta is in Scocin's Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch on p. 62 dated to 1275.

Kathrina appears 13 times in the data used in Aryanhwy's "German Names from Nürnberg, 1497" in the list of feminine names. (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/nurnberg1497.html)

Felhamer is from German Names from Kulmbach, 1495 by Sara L. Uckelman (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/german/surnameskulmbach.html).


Bjarnhedinn Hammarsson     (Wolfscairn)     Return of New Name and New Device

Gules, a hammer Or on a chief azure three bezants.
Submitter desires a male name and will not accept major or minor changes.

Unfortunately, we must return the name as the submitter allows no changes to be made. Some minor changes are required to make the name passable. We would need to add the diacriticals and remove the second M from the patronymic. The proper format would be Bjarnheðinn Hamarsson.

Geirr Bassi has the masculine given name Bjarnheðinn on p.8. Bjarnhéðinn is in An Icelandic-English Dictionary by Richard Cleasby on p. 66 under the header spelling Björn.

Hamarsson is a patronymic created from Hamarr on p. 130 in Scandinavian Personal Names in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire by Gillian Fellos Jensen.

The device must also be returned due the azure chief on a gules background. This makes it color on color, which is against the Rules of Heraldry.

Sighfridh hauknefr      (Cloondara)     Return of Resubmission of Device to Kingdom
Gyronny gules and Or, an annulet counterchanged.
This device must be returned, as it conflicts with the badge of Annys de Vernun of Kettering for House de Vernun (fieldless) A torse wreath Or and gules.

The submitter listed some approved changes; however, there were problems with each as follows:

Or & gules cannot be used on this field.

Argent annulet: conflicts with device of Ragnachar Radagaist Vert, a serpent in annulo argent.

Azure annulet: conflicts with badge of Gwilym Coedwr (fieldless) A serpent involved in annulo azure.

Vert annulet: conflicts with badge of Katherine Throckmorton (fieldless) A slow match vert enflamed proper.

Purpure annulet: conflicts with the bade of Margherita Alessia (fieldless) An annulet purpure.

Üta Kathrina Felhamer     (Mists)     Return of New Device
Quarterly sable and Or, a harpy displayed gules.
This device must be returned as it conflicts with the badge of Allissaundra Olympia Martiessa de Constantine Sable, a two headed harpy displayed, langed aflamed, proper, crined sable, plummed gules, membered and fimbriated Or. (Aug 79)

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