Minutes of the May, 2008 Heralds Meeting

Click here for a Printer Friendly (Black and White) version
Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page


------NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS----NEWS-----

The June 8 meeting will be held in Sparks, NV at the home of Vigdis & Hrothgeirr. Email matins@heralds.westkingdom.org for directions.

MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 18 May XLIII (2008)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 18 May 2008, at the home of Eilis O'Boirne in Berkeley, CA. The meeting started at 12:35 pm and ended at 2:25 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Latimer; Astrið of Swansvale, Brachet; Moira O'Connor, Greencloak; Na'arah bat Avraham, Banner; Wilhelm von Homburg, Sable Swan and Baldric; Walraven von Nijmegen, Exchequer for College; Frederick of Holland, Pursuivants; Matilda FitzRichard, Maxen ap Morgan, Volker von dem Walde, Danäe FitzRoberts (Hobbit), Elysant atten Oke, and Jared of Castlewood, Pursuivants Extraordinary; E'taín, Cornet; Eilis O;Boirne, Queen of the West; Branwyn FitzRobert, guest; and Vigdís vestfirzka, Matins/Acting Vesper.

COLLEGE OF HERALDS MEETINGS
The schedule for meetings in 2008 is June 8 (this meeting will be held in Sparks, NV), August 16 (Saturday!), September 21, October 26 and November 16. Meetings start at noon.

In general, meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings will be announced well in advance.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Monday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@yahoogroups.com. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please subscribe at wknames-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

PERSONNEL -- POSITIONS AVAILABLE:


REPORTS

Na'arah Banner: Proceeding with the training for the Baronial Heralds. They are doing backing for Kingdom Courts.

Astrith Brachet: We're keeping up with the current batch of Letters of Intent. There will not be a meeting next week, will be posted to the list. We expect a huge onslaught to commence after Pennsic.

Moira Greencloak: The Green Cloak regalia was stolen. Things have been offered for loan. The Kingdom will be paying for a new pavilion. Beltane went well. Some new people worked. The Earl Marshal will be including in his training that they are not to be rude to the heralds.

Owen Latimer: The consultation table has not been in use since our last meeting. Vale de Draco has returned and they are trying to come up with a new submission. Latimer has subscribed to their mailing list and is trying to help them in this endeavor. Funds have been approved, from the Kingdom, for a pavilion and books.

Wilhelm Baldric: There haven't been many training issues. The video for the WAC-VAC came out well. There is a huge amount of information on the discs. DVDs or a down will be made available as soon as possible. The waivers have been sent to the waiver deputy.

Hirsch Golem: The Herald's portion of the new Kingdom Website is up and running. The Ceremony Book updates are nearing completion. The Awards Lists reporting system is working well.

Gillian Seawolf: No report

Wilhelm Sable Swan: Prince Alden will be changing the format for May Coronet. It is similar to the format of La Prova Dura. We will be needing as many herald voices as possible. Please come and volunteer.

Isabel Stellanordica: No report


ANNOUNCEMENTS

From Matins Herald: Please note that the "line drawing" requirement for device submissions does NOT mean a b/w photocopy of the color form.

For name submissions, we need two copies of all name forms and all documentation source printouts and/or photocopies. For device and badge submissions, we need four colored copies plus an uncolored line outline. Please use colored felt tip markers. Please do not use colored pencil, pastel colors, crayons, color printers or color copiers. The artist's signature is required, but the submitter's signature is not required. If you are using restricted or non-standard elements or any other supplemental matters, we need two copies of your supplemental paperwork.

Please make sure that all submitters print their e-mail addresses clearly. A single mistaken letter makes the e-mail address useless.

We will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

UPCOMING EVENTS
The 2008 Known World Heraldic and Scribes Symposium will be held in the Kingdom of Drachenwald (London, England) on September 5-7, 2008, which is Labor Day weekend.

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Beginning with the January 2008 meeting, submission fees are $6 per name, $6 per device, $6 per badge - and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $10 instead of $12. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 2 copies of the name packet (form and documentation), 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the full size device form, and 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following this link: http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins Herald (c/o Sandstedt / PO Box 1346 / Sparks NV 89432-1346).

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis and Vigdís at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

BRACHET MEETINGS
These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Astrith of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at or Eilis at 510-486-0633.

CYNAGUAN COMMENTING MEETINGS
A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.


EXCERPTS FROM THE LOAR

The LoAR for December 2007 was published in April 2007. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Lady Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

WEST - Acceptances - December 2007
(There was no August 2007 LoI)

Alan of Ockham. Reblazon of device. Gules, on a pile bendwise inverted throughout Or a hummingbird hovering palewise vert, throated gules, tailed sable.
When registered in June 1981, this was blazoned Gules, on a pile inverted bendwise throughout Or, an Allen's hummingbird hovering palewise proper [Selasphorus sasin]. This is the Society's defining instance of the hovering posture for hummingbirds. However, the bird is not tinctured as an Allen's hummingbird: it does not, for instance, match any of the photos at the Academy of Natural Sciences website (vireo.acnatsci.org). We have reblazoned the bird's tinctures explicitly, and removed the Linnaean specification from the blazon. Please see this month's Cover Letter for further discussion.

WEST - Returns - December 2007
(There was no August 2007 LoI)

In Service,

Vigdís vestfirzka
Matins Herald


SUBMISSONS – 18 May, XLIII (2008)

ITEMS SENT TO LAUREL

Achmed ibn Salim al-Hasib     (Betony Wood)     New Name and See Returns for New Device
Submitter desires a male name.

All naming information came from 'Period Names and Naming Practices', by Da'ud ibn Auda (David B. Appleton) © 2003 http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm

<Ahmed> appears as an ism in Da'ud's article. (From 'A few notes about Transliteration' - As a note of historical interest, Arabic name have often become corrupted when used by Europeans. Examples, many from period, include: Averroes, from ibn Rushd; Avicenna from ibn Sina; Achmed from Ahmad; Amurath from al-Murad; Saladin from Salah al-Din; Nureddin from Nur al-Din; Almanzor from al-Mansur; Rhases from Razi; and Avenzoar from ibn Zuhr.) **if Achmed is found to be unacceptable, please use Ahmad as the personal name (the ism)

<ibn Salim> Son of Salim. <Salim> appears as an ism.

<al-Hasib> is from the section on masculine cognomens. Da'ud's article states "...the respected/the noble (not a name denoting rank)"...

The name as a whole follows the general pattern of the cited period name <Ahmad ibn Sa'id al-Bahali>: ism son of ism + laqab/nisba


Aine de Lacy     (Fettburg)     New Name and New Device

Per chevron inverted, gules and azure, a pall between three leopard's faces cabossed argent.
<Aine>: Index of Names in Irish Annals: Áine by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Aine.shtml Middle Irish Gaelic (c900-c1200) form: Áine Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) form: Áine In this case <Áine> is attested for the years 1169, 1171, 1316, 1319, 1325, 1329, 1381, 1382, 1386, 1405, 1419, 1427, 1431, 1441, 1468 (note that that is only 1169-1468, not 900-1700).

O Corrain & Maguire, p.19 sn. Aine, gives <{A/}ine> as the sole form, and states that while it became obsolete as a male name early, "it retained its popularity as a female name."

<de Lacy>: Brass Enscription Index by Julian Goodwyn (mka Janell K. Lovelace) http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/brasses/ Index of Surnames A - H de Lacy - 1375 (Kent)


Arianwen ferch Morgan     (Fettburg)     New Name and See Returns for New Device
Submitter desires a female name and will not allow major changes.

Bartrum, Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts, PB 3[b] (p.82) cites <Arianwen verch Vrychan gwraic Ierwerth hirvlawd ap Tegonwy ap Teon>.

ibid., ABT 15 (p.105) cites <Morgan ap Karadawc ap Iestin ap Gwrgan ap Ithel ap Idwallon ap Morgan mawr. . .>.

ibid., ABT 3[d] (p.98) cites <Tangwystyl ferch Katwallawn m. Gruffudd>.

From the submitter: "I am uncertain if it is more period to have Arianwen verch Morgant, or even perhaps Arianwen merch Morcant. Arianwen is the most important element of the name. I am willing to have a very early period Welsh persona in order to use Arianwen.

Arianwen:

1) Arianwen is a feminine name found in "A Welsh Mescellany" (31). I was told that items 1, 2, and 3 are common sources that no photocopy was needed. Jones, Heather Rose, "A Welsh Miscellany", The Compleat Anachronist #66 (Milpitas, CA: SCA, 1993)

2) "Given names from P.D. Bartrum's "Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts" by Keridwen ferch Morgan Glas Fryn (Heather Rose Jones) Y Camamseriad, Issue 1, Summer 92; p. 36

3) Arianwen is a given feminine name listed in P.X. Bartrum's Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts (Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1966). This is noted two times by the above author in her sources.

4) Report from the Academy of St. Gabriel (#663) An excerpt from the report: "There are three sources for names which begin with <Arian->. One is Greek... [o]ne is Welsh and one is Latin... [t]he Welsh root is the element <Arian->, ultimately derived from a Welsh word meaning "silver". Two names using that element are <Ariannell> and <Arianwen>. These names were used in early medieval Wales." (photocopy included)

5) Report fro the Academy of St. Gabriel (#638) An excerpt from the report: "There is a similar name, <Arianwen>, which did exist in period [2], but this spelling would not have been used until much later than the dates that interest you, 600-900." (photocopy included)

6) Arianwen is listed as a daughter of Brychan, , under "daughters of Brychan." Brychan was a 5th century King of Brycheiniog in South Wales. (photocopy included) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brychan

Ferch/verch/merch:

Report from the Academy of St. Gabriel (#2567)

"The Welsh word for "daughter" is <ferch>, which was used in this spelling from the 15th century to modern times [4]. The older spelling <verch> is also appropriate for your period [3]."

[3] Jones, Heather Rose (aka Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn), "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names" (WWW: J. Mittleman, 1996). http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html
[4] _Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru_ (Cardiff: University of Wales Press, several dates), s.v. ferch.
Report from the Academy of St. Gabriel (#1364)
"The Welsh word for "daughter" is <ferch>, found as <merc> or <merch> until about the 11th century, <verch> in the 12th to 14th centuries, and <ferch> from the 15th century to modern times. Depending on when you choose to set your persona, the spelling will vary. For example, the following would be typical spellings for each period:
8-11th century - Guenn merc Run
ca. 12-14th century - Gwenn verch Run
ca. 15-16th century - Gwen ferch Rhun"

Morgan:

Report from the Academy of St. Gabriel (#2616)

"<Morgant> was also found within your period, though it was always relatively uncommon. We most often find it spelled <Morgant> in Welsh- language documents, and <Morgan> in Anglo-Latin ones. [1,2,5]"

[1] Jones, Thomas, _Brut Y Tywysogyon_ (Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1941).
[2] Ellis, T.P., _The First Extent of Bromfield and Yale A.D. 1315_, Cymmrodorion Record Series No. 11 (London: The Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 1924).
[5] Sanders, I.J. "The Boroughs of Aberystwyth and Cardigan in the Early Fourteenth Century" in BBCS Vol.15 Part 4 (May 1954) pp.282, 292.

Report from the Academy of St. Gabriel (#2824)

"<Morgan> is a primarily Latin or English spelling of the name, though <Morgan> does appear in Welsh-language records in the 15th century and on. Prior to the 15th century, the name was spelled <Morgant>, or, if you go back far enough, <Morcant>. [2,3,4,5,6]"
[2] Jones, Francis. "The Subsidy of 1292", Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies 13:210-230.
[3] Rees, WIlliam. 1941. "Ministers' Accounts (General Series), Bundle 1158, No. 3 (Public Record Office -- Accounts of the Ministers for the Lands of the Crown in West Wales for the financial year 1352-3" in Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies 10:60-83,139-156, 156-271.
[4] Lewis, E.A. "The Toll Books of Some North Pembrokeshire Fairs (1599-1603)" in Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies vol.7 (1934).
[5] Ellis, T.P., _The First Extent of Bromfield and Yale A.D. 1315_, Cymmrodorion Record Series No. 11 (London: The Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 1924).
[6] Jones, Thomas ed.. 1941. Brut y Tywysogyon (Peniarth Ms. 20). University of Wales Press, Cardiff.


Berta Mallory     (Betony Wood)     New Name and New Device

Vert, a lion rampant and on a chief Or, 3 crabs gules.
Submitter desires a female name.

<Berta> Feminine Given Names (A Dictionary of English Surnames) Berta is found under Bertha as an alternate spelling in the 12th, 13th and 16th Centuries.
In Withycombe, p.49 sn. Bertha 1205-15, <Berta> 1101-21, 1143-47.

<Mallory> Reaney & Wilson, p.295 sn. Mallory, <Robert Mallory> 1255.


Christophe d'Avignon     (Montaigne Du Roi)     New Name and New Device

Ermine, a fleur-de-lys and a bordure azure.
Submitter desires a male name and will not accept major or minor changes.

Dauzat, p.130 sn. Christophle, cites <Christophe>; no date given. Similar names are period: An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/paris.html cites <Christofle le Longis>, and Morlet, Les Noms de Personne . . . , v.II, p.34 sn. Christophorus, cites <Christophorus> with apparent dates from 858 to 1044 and <Christoferus> from 851.

Dauzat, p.179 sn. Davigneau, cites <d'Avignon>; no date given. Avignon is a city in southern France noted for hosting the papacy during the 14th C.


Colette de Navarre     (Vinhold)     New Name and New Device and See Returns for New Badge

Device:
Per chevron sable and argent, two crescents argent and a winged unicorn segreant purpure.
Submitter desires a female name and will not accept any major changes.

<Colette> is from "Late Period French Feminine Names" by Sara L. Uckelman. (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/french/latefrench.html) Colette is listed as occurring 6 times, dated to 1431, 1447 (2), 1483, 1542 (2), and 1565 in tax documents from Amboise & Blois, Berry, Paris, and Senlis.

<de Navarre> is from "French Names from Two Thirteenth Century Chronicles" by Josh Mittleman in the Place Names used in Locative Surnames section (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/crusades/crusadesLieux.html). According to this article, Place names are used as a surname with the preposition <de>. Late Period Feminine Names from the South of France http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/latefrenchfem.html cites <de Navarra> as a toponym from 1425.


Colyne Jak Leslie     (Earngyld)     Resub of New Device to Kingdom

Ermine, a compass star elongated to base and an orle sable.
Submitter's name was registered July 2007.

Was previously returned due to conflict with device of Melissande Aefensteorra Chevronelly vert and argent a mullet of eight points alternately straight and wavy sable. Also conflicts with the badge of Craig of the Glyn Gyronny gules and Or a compass star sable. Conflicts with the device of Almarek of the Dunedane Ermine a mullet of four points gyronny argent and purpure. Submitter has added the orle to clear the conflicts.


Rian Ó Brógáin     (Fettburg)     New Name and New Device

Gyronny arrondi azure and argent a turtle tergient vert.
Submitter desires a male name.

<Rian>: From Index of Names in Irish Annals: Ríán, by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Rian.shtml Middle Irish Gaelic (c900-c1200) nominative form: Ríán <Ríán> is attested for the years 895, 976, 988, 1015, 1016 (note that is only 895-1016, not 900-1200).

O Corrain & Maguire, p.155 sn. Rian is the post colon form and <R{i/}{a/}n> as the early form.

<O Brogan>: 16th & 17th Century Anglicized Irish Surnames from Woulfe, by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (Kathleen M. O'Brien) http://www.medievalscotland.org/kmo/Woulfe/SortedByAnglicizedSpelling.shtml O Brogan (page) 444 Ó Brógáin <Ó Brógáin> O Corrain & Maguire, p. 37, listed as the post colon form.
Woulfe, p.444 sn. O Brogain, cites <O Brogan> as an Anglicized form of the Gaelic <{O/} Br{o/}g{a/}in>.

There was some discussion over the placement of the gyronny arrondi at our submissions meeting. After some research, we found that it is drawn correctly per Wreath's statement on the July 2005 LoAR. http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2005/07/05-07cl.txt


ITEMS RETURNED FOR FURTHER WORK

Achmed ibn Salim al-Hasib     (Betony Wood)     Return of New Device

Per fess azure and vert, on a fess wavy between a demi-sun issuant from sinister chief and a roofless well Or, three camels passant contourny sable.
This device must be returned for being excessively pictorial, which is against the Rules for Submission VIII.4.a

4. Obtrusive Modernity. - Armory may not use obtrusively modern designs.
"Modern" is defined as anything outside the period of the Society.
a. Pictorial Design - Overly pictorial designs may not be registered.
Design elements should not be combined to create a picture of a scene or landscape. For example, combining a field divided per fess wavy azure and Or with a sun and three triangles Or, as well as a camel and two palm trees proper to depict the Nile Valley would not be acceptable.


Arianwen ferch Morgan     (Fettburg)     Return of New Device

Per chevron azure and argent, three triquetras in chevron argent and a horse's head couped sable.
This device must be returned for a conflict with the device of Deirdre Fallon Per chevron azure and argent, three card peaks argent, and a horses head contourny sable. Additionally, the triquetras are excessively interlaced.


Colette de Navarre     (Vinhold)     Return of New Badge

Badge:
(Fieldless) A winged unicorn head erased purpure.
This badge is being returned for redrawing. The wing must be drawn so that it is recognizable as a wing while maintaining the recognizably of the unicorns head. Additionally, the erasures are too long and thin in appearance.


Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page