Minutes of the June, 2008 Heralds Meeting

Click here for a Printer Friendly (Black and White) version
Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page


There is no July meeting this year due to Pennsic's date change.
The next meeting is August 16 - THIS IS A SATURDAY - in Berkeley.



The meeting was held on Sunday, 8 June 2008, at the home of Vigdís vestfirzka in Sparks, NV. The meeting started at 11:50 am and ended at 1:20 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Owen ap Morgan, Latimer; Astrið of Swansvale, Brachet; Moira O'Connor, Greencloak; Na'arah bat Avraham, Banner; Khaalid al Jaraad, Snowbound; Frederick of Holland, Pursuivants; Elysant atten Oke, Aurelia de Montfort, and Jared of Castlewood, Pursuivants Extraordinary; Elizbeta Korotkaia, Peregrine Gray, Aiden of Castlewood, and Valentino de Siena, Cornet; Alianora of Prymrose and Veronica Perlas, guest; and Vigdís vestfirzka, Matins/Acting Vesper.

The schedule for meetings in 2008 is August 16 (Saturday!), September 21, October 26 and November 16. Meetings start at noon.

In general, meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings will be announced well in advance.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Monday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@yahoogroups.com. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please subscribe at wknames-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.



Na'arah Banner: Been working with the Baronial Heralds. Encouraging them to send in their ceremonies.

Astrith Brachet: Up to date on commenting. Have a lot of submissions this month. There are only three of us who are regularly attending, so we'd love more people.

Moira Greencloak: June Crown is in two weeks. Come volunteer! Gillian will be running the heralds point on Friday night / Saturday morning.

Owen Latimer: Cyn Coronet happened. The jump start to get more folks at the consultation table is starting to bear fruit. We've been seeing more faces helping out. There will be consulting at Crown.

Wilhelm Baldric: no report

Hirsch Golem: Everything's working ...

Gillian Seawolf: no report

Wilhelm Sable Swan: no report

Isabel Stellanordica: no report


From Matins Herald: Please note that the "line drawing" requirement for device submissions does NOT mean a b/w photocopy of the color form.

For name submissions, we need two copies of all name forms and all documentation source printouts and/or photocopies. For device and badge submissions, we need four colored copies plus an uncolored line outline. Please use colored felt tip markers. Please do not use colored pencil, pastel colors, crayons, color printers or color copiers. The artist's signature is required, but the submitter's signature is not required. If you are using restricted or non-standard elements or any other supplemental matters, we need two copies of your supplemental paperwork.

Please make sure that all submitters print their e-mail addresses clearly. A single mistaken letter makes the e-mail address useless.

We will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

The 2008 Known World Heraldic and Scribes Symposium will be held in the Kingdom of Drachenwald (London, England) on September 5-7, 2008, which is Labor Day weekend.


SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Submission fees are $6 per name, $6 per device, $6 per badge - and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $10 instead of $12. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 2 copies of the name packet (form and documentation), 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the full size device form, and 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following this link: http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins Herald (c/o Sandstedt / PO Box 1346 / Sparks NV 89432-1346).

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis and Vigdís at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Astrith of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at or Eilis at 510-486-0633.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.


The LoAR for January 2008 was published in June 2008. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by the Laurel Queen of Arms, please be sure to visit the site.

Successor as Laurel will be Mistress Olwynn ni Chinnéidigh, of the Kingdom of Atlantia. She will be working with Tanczos Istvan as Wreath and Aryanhwy merch Catmael as Pelican.

WEST - Acceptances - January 2008
(September 2007 LoI)

Abu Shahid Malik al-Haddad. Name and device. Per saltire sable and argent, in cross a roundel between four crescents, horns outward, counterchanged.
Submitted as Abu Shahid Malik al Haddad, the documentation for the nisba, Da'ud ibn Auda, "Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices" (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm), shows the form al-Haddad. We have changed the name to Abu Shahid Malik al-Haddad to match the documentation.

Allison MacMurrye. Name.
Submitted as Allison McMurrye of Atholl, the combination of the name Murray or MacMurrey with the location of Atholl is a claim to be the chief of Clan Murray; Atholl is the seat of this clan. Precedent notes:
Baron Bruce covered the issue of pretention in the form of "X of Y" in Scottish names. "We will continue to prohibit the use of a Scots clan name with the seat or territory of that clan (e.g. Cameron of Lochiel), or a surname with the phrase of that Ilk (or its functional equivalent, e.g. Macintosh of Macintosh). That usage, with or without the given name, is the title of the actual chief of the clan or his immediate kin; its use in the SCA represents a direct infringement on actual nobility, and also appears to be a claim to rank, either of which is grounds for return. But by and large, the use of a Scots surname with a Scots placename is acceptable for SCA use." (LoAR March 1993, p. 8) Based on that precedent, [MacLeod of Duirinish] is registrable. [Duncan MacLeod of Duirinish, January, 1994]

In addition, the patronymic byname uses the scribal abbreviation Mc. We do not register scribal abbreviations; by precedent, the abbreviation Mc in this position in a name is spelled out as Mac. We have changed the name to Allison MacMurrye in order to register it.

Blaxio Zen. Device. Sable, a pall voided Or between a peach tree argent fructed and two wyverns sejant respectant Or.
Blazoned on the LoI as Sable, a pall voided throughout between a peach tree argent fructed and two wyverns respectant Or, the presence of a color emblazon in OSCAR allowed most commenters to note the correct tincture of the pall. We note that there is no heraldic difference between a peach tree and an orange tree.

Ceinwen ferch Belyn. Reblazon of device. Per chevron gules and argent, three compass stars argent and a cat sejant sable.
Registered in September 1997 with the blazon Per chevron gules and argent, in chief three compass stars argent and a cat sejant sable, that blazon is ambiguous as to the placement of the cat. As the field is neutral, it could legitimately overlie the line of division. As there are two types of charges on either side of the line of division, this is a group of four co-primary charges rather than a primary charge and three secondary charges. If the cat did overlie the line of division, the original blazon would be correct and there would be a single primary charge and three secondary charges.

Cormac Kane. Name.
This name mixes Gaelic and English or Anglicized Gaelic; this is one step from period practice.

Henri de Valery sur Somme. Device. Per bend sinister azure and ermine, a Maltese cross counterchanged argent and azure.
The large number of ermine spots causes them to be drawn very small; however, as they are still identifiable as ermine spots this is registerable. Please advise the submitter to draw fewer and larger ermine spots.

Robin the Ruthless in Battel. Reblazon of device. Gules, a scorpion, within the curve of its tail a heart, and maintaining in each pincer a heart all Or.
This was registered in March 1998 with the blazon Gules, a scorpion tergiant, maintaining in each pincer a heart, and in base within the curve of its tail another heart, all Or; however, that blazon makes it appear that all of the hearts are maintained charges. While they are the same size, the heart in base is not touching the scorpion and is therefore a secondary charge rather than a maintained charge. A scorpion is tergiant by default.

Úna inghean Chonchobhair. Name and device. Or, a dragonfly purpure and on a bordure azure three triskeles Or.
Submitted as Úna inghean Conchobhair, Gaelic grammar requires that the first C in Conchobhair should be lenited. The letter C lenites when it is the first letter in a patronym as part of a feminine name. We have changed the name to Úna inghean Chonchobhair to correct the grammar.

WEST - Returns - January 2008
(September 2007 LoI)


In Service,

Vigdís vestfirzka
Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 8 June, XLII (2008)


Amaryllis Alexandrea de Lacey     (Silver Desert)     New Change of Device

Gules, in bend sinister, three pomegranates Or seeded gules.
Submitter's name was passed November 1989. If device change is approved, submitter releases old device of Per pale azure and Or, on a bend sinister cotised, two tassels palewise, all counterchanged (passed Nov 89).

Eva van Brugge     (Golden Rivers)     New Change of Name
Submitter desires a female name. Old name (Aibhilin inghean Eoghain, registered 1/07) to be released.

Translates to Eva, from the city of Bruges:
Given name Eva from the 15th century Dutch names (dated 1481-88) (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15.html).

Surname denotes place - van Brugges - which is documented at http://heraldry.sca.or/laurel/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/DutchFlemish.html. Bruges was founded in 1128 and is therefore a period location. The submitted spelling of the byname appears in the cited Laurel Precedents index.

Isibél inghean Uilliam     (Wolfscairn)     New Name
Submitter desires a female name.

<Isibél> is from the Index of Names in Irish Annals by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/Isibel.shtml) with 3 citations dated to 1441, 1505, and 1583. This spelling is the standard Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) form.

<inghean> The article "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names (3rd Edition)" at http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#simplepatronymicbyname states "The standard way to form a name using a simple patronymic byname for women is: <single given name> inghean <father's given name (in genitive case and always lenited unless starting with D, T, L, N, R, or a vowel)>"

<Uilliam> is from the Index of Names in Irish Annals by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Uilliam.shtml) with 18 citations dated between 1302 and 1577. This spelling is the standard Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) form.

The submitter originally requested the name of "Isibél inghean Uilliam of Whaleshaven". We have dropped the "of Whaleshaven" as it is not documented and submitter has not provided proof of relationship to use the grandfather clause.

Kors Damiszoon     (Golden Rivers)     New Name
Submitter desires a male name. No major changes allowed.

The article "15th Century Dutch Names" at http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15.html cites <Cors> from 1531-32, <Korsckin> 1478, <Korstken> 1478-81 (all under the header <Kerstiaen>, sorted among the 'C's.) While not documented itself, <Kors> seems a plausible interpolation. <Kors> is also listed among the variants of the header <Christiaan> in the /Woordenboek van Voornamen/, Dr. J. van der Schaar, Aula-Boeken, Utrecht & Antwerpen, 1967, on pp.54-55, but without a date. (This book is in the Latimer Herald's library.) Submitter will accept <Cors> if <Kors> is not allowable.

The article "15th Century Dutch Names - Surnames" at http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/dutch15surnames.html cites <Damisz.> from 1478-81 (under the header <Daem>.) The period in <Damisz.> is a scribal abbreviation for <Damiszoon>. As submitter requested authenticity, we have expanded the name to the full spelling.

Miach of the Shire      (Mountains Gate)     New Name and New Device
Per saltire Or and purpure, an arrow sable.
Submitter desires a Male name and will not accept major changes.

<Miach> is an Irish variant of Miadach (can be both male or female in gender). Source: O'C&M p. 136 snb Miadach.

<of the Shire> Is plausible, as Reaney & Wilson lists (s.n. Shire):

Owen ap Morgan     (Golden Rivers)     New Change of Device
Vert, on a bend engrailed argent three oak leaves vert.

Submitter's name passed December 1990. If passed, original device of Vert, on a bend sinister engrailed argent three oak leaves vert to be retained as a badge.

Sciath inghean Airt     (Mountains Gate)     New Name and New Device
Per fess vert and sable, three bees in bend sinister Or.
<Sciath> is a header (early) spelling in O Corrain and Maguire, identified as the name of "a saint of the Muscraige."

The article "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names (3rd Edition)" at http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#simplepatronymicbyname states "The standard way to form a name using a simple patronymic byname for women is: <single given name> inghean <father's given name (in genitive case & always lenited unless starting with D, T, L, N, R, or a vowel)>"

Woulfe (p.306) identifies <Mac Airt> as a "very rare" surname meaning "son of Art", thus marking <Airt> as the genitive. Since it begins with a vowel, the corresponding feminine patronymic would be <inghean Airt>.

Veronica Perla     (Silver Desert)     New Name and New Device
Purpure, three lozenges Or.
<Veronica> is listed in DeFelice, 1992, on p. 392

<Perla> is listed in DeFelice, 1992, p. 193 under Perla.

Wulfgrim Kolbrands     (Prov. Mists)     New Name and New Device
Quarterly sable and vert, in bend sinister two wolf heads cabossed argent.
<Wulfgrim> has two entries in Searle's /Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum/:
*Wulfgrim Ulgrim* nomen viri Ellis B"
"*Wulfgrim* mon: AEthelred II Cnut Grueber"

Socin's /Mittelhochdeutsches Namenbuch/ (footnote ** on p.199) lists <Wolfgrimus>.

Morlet's /Les Noms de Personne . . ./ (v.I, pp.229-30 under Wulf-) lists <Uulfgrim>, <Vulfgrimus>, and <Wolfgrim>.

<Kolbrandr> is a Norse masculine given name appearing in Lind (col. 704) and Geirr Bassi (p.12). The terminal -r makes this distinctly Norse, but nominative case. We have changed the submission to the genitive case - <Kolbrands> (Lind shows examples without -son.)

Alternatively, Brechenmacher's /Etymologische Worterbuch . . ./ (v.II, p.82) lists <Kohlbrandt> as a locative surname deriving from a place where coal was burned (kohl = coal, brandt = burnt), and cites <Anna K[ohlbrandt] zu Heldrungen> from 1644. While not strictly period, this is within the grey area for documentation.

<Wulfgrim Kolbrands> or <Wulfgrim Kohlbrandt> are both possible; although as much as we can tell, either is a bit of a stretch (early Germanic given name + Norse patronymic or early Germanic given + late/post period locative.)


Gerstan Heah Leah     (Rivenoak)     Return of New Badge

Or, a lance in bend sinister sable.
Submitter's name was passed March 1982.
This badge must be returned as it conflicts with device of Angus Kerr Or, a spear sable.

Minutes Page
Main Herald's Web Page