Minutes of the April, 2008 Heralds Meeting

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The June 8 meeting will be held in Sparks, NV at the home of Vigdis & Hrothgeirr.


The meeting was held on Sunday, 13 April 2008, at the home of Eilis O'Boirne in Berkeley, CA. The meeting started at 12:40 pm and ended at 2:10 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Vigdís vestfirzka, Vesper; Owen ap Morgan, Latimer; Astrið of Swansvale, Brachet; Moira O'Connor, Greencloak; Walraven von Nijmegen, Exchequer for College; Felix MacAvady, Pursuivant for St.Katherine's; Frederick of Holland and Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym, Pursuivants; Matilda FitzRichard, Maxen, and Elysant atten Oke, Pursuivants Extraordinary; Eilis O;Boirne, Crown Princess; and Vigdís vestfirzka, Matins.

The schedule for meetings in 2008 is May 18, June 8 (this meeting will be held in Sparks, NV), August 16 (Saturday!), September 21, October 26 and November 16. Meetings start at noon.

In general, meetings will be held at Eilis’ house (2322 Russell Street, Berkeley CA 94705; 510-486-0633 -- call for directions). “Road show” meetings will be announced well in advance.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Monday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@yahoogroups.com. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please subscribe at wknames-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.




Na'arah Banner: Court went well at Crown, despite lack of voices due to illness and other reasons. Banner and Green Cloak have worked out a better system that is planned to start at June Crown.

Astrith Brachet: There will be no meeting next week. The work load is being kept up with well. There will be two more months that there will be only three meetings a month. More people are invited to come and participate as often as they are able. There was a number of April Fool LoIs posted to Oscar if anyone was interested in viewing them.

Moira Greencloak: March Crown went well. Need to think about replacing the Green Cloak Table. It's a bit rickety and awkward. We had three new trainees at Crown. There will be training happening at Beltane also.

Owen Latimer: Crown happened, Coronet happened. We did reasonable business. I had a wonderful number of volunteers helping out, and would like to see it continue. We have a new acquisition to the library - because MacLysat has been declared no longer sufficient, we now have Woulfe's "Irish Names and Surnames." . Latimer continues to look for recommendations for good books to expand the library.

Cynaguan Commentary meetings are still going well. We're always looking for more attendees.

Wilhelm Baldric: no report

Hirsch Golem: no report

Gillian Seawolf: no report

Wilhelm Sable Swan: no report

Isabel Stellanordica: no report

Guido herald: La Prova Dura is coming up April 18-20. We will REALLY need heralds. See Wilhelm to volunteer.


From Matins Herald: Please note that the "line drawing" requirement for device submissions does NOT mean a b/w photocopy of the color form.

For name submissions, we need two copies of all name forms and all documentation source printouts and/or photocopies. For device and badge submissions, we need four colored copies plus an uncolored line outline. Please use colored felt tip markers. Please do not use colored pencil, pastel colors, crayons, color printers or color copiers. The artist's signature is required, but the submitter's signature is not required. If you are using restricted or non-standard elements or any other supplemental matters, we need two copies of your supplemental paperwork.

Please make sure that all submitters print their e-mail addresses clearly. A single mistaken letter makes the e-mail address useless.

We will continue to hold voice heraldry training sessions at the beginning of events to encourage involvement at the event.

The 2008 Known World Heraldic and Scribes Symposium will be held in the Kingdom of Drachenwald (London, England) on September 5-7, 2008, which is Labor Day weekend.


SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Beginning with the January 2008 meeting, submission fees are $6 per name, $6 per device, $6 per badge - and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $10 instead of $12. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 2 copies of the name packet (form and documentation), 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the full size device form, and 3 colored copies and 1 line drawing of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following this link: http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins Herald (c/o Sandstedt / PO Box 1346 / Sparks NV 89432-1346).

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please subscribe at wkheralds-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis and Vigdís at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds' website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Astrith of Swansvale (Gretchen Lebednik) at or Eilis at 510-486-0633.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at 4317 Alderwood Way, Sacramento, CA 95864. Call Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym for more information, (916) 323-4268 or email her, ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.


The LoAR for November 2007 was published in March 2007. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Lady Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

WEST - Acceptances - November 2007
(July 2007 LoI)

Alexander de Blare. Device. Per chevron gules and Or, three quatrefoils counterchanged.
Nice armory.

Anne Barberry. Reblazon of device. Vert, a pale sable fimbriated argent, surmounted by a winged empty drop-spindle Or.
When registered June 1983 with the blazon Vert, a pale sable, fimbriated argent, surmounted by a winged drop-spindle Or, the fact that the drop-spindle was empty was omitted from the blazon.

Celestria Textrix. Device. Or fretty azure, on a pile vert an owl contourny argent.

Madelaine de Bourgogne. Reblazon of device. Per pale Or and gules, a squirrel sejant erect guardant sable maintaining in dexter forepaw an empty wooden drop spindle proper, a chief semy-de-lys counterchanged.
Registered in May 1983 with the blazon Per pale Or and gules, a squirrel sejant erect guardant sable maintaining in dexter forepaw a drop spindle proper and a chief semé-de-lys counterchanged, the fact that the drop spindle is empty was omitted from the blazon; additionally, drop spindles of themselves have no proper tincture, so the fact that this one is wooden must be specified. We also took the liberty of tightening the blazon, to avoid the suggestion that the squirrel is maintaining the chief.

Madelaine de Bourgogne. Reblazon of badge. Sable, an empty drop spindle within a bordure Or.
When registered in March 1983 with the blazon Sable, a drop-spindle within a bordure Or, the fact that the drop spindle is empty was omitted from the blazon.

Muirenn ingen Brain. Device. Argent, a shamrock and on a chief wavy vert three hearts argent.

Olaf Ketilsson. Reblazon of device. Per pale gules and sable, a chevron throughout between in chief two roundels Or.
This was registered in December 1987 with the blazon Per pale gules and sable, a chevron throughout between two roundels Or. The location of the roundels was not clear from that blazon.

Olivia Bunny. Name (see RETURNS for device).
The spelling Olivia had been declared unregisterable, because it had been documented as a literary name from a work published after 1600. However, Wreath found several examples of the spelling Olivia in a Latinized record from the late 16th C:
I found some examples of Olivia on ancestry.com, but the original records appear to all be in Latin; all of these from marriages in Somerset:

  • Johannes Stegg & Olivia Tunne 13 Dec 1570
  • Johannes Copp & Olivia Tylbot 26 Jan 1572
  • Johannes Searle & Olivia Rostter [?] 30 Oct 1575
  • Elias Searle & Olivia Griffinne 07 Nov 1577
  • Johannes Niclas & Olivia Nurse 23 Oct 1580
  • Ricardus Howarde & Olivia Hille 11 Jun 1587
  • Henricus Mullet & Olivia Kingsburie 02 Aug 1598
  • While these examples are from a genealogical website, the names do not appear to be normalized. Therefore, Olivia is documented as a late 16th C Latin form of the English name Oliva, and is, therefore, registerable.

    Quentyn Arey. Device. Quarterly sable and gules, an oak tree eradicated and on a chief indented Or three compass stars gules.

    Wilhelm von Homburg. Badge. (Fieldless) A cannon sable.
    There was considerable discussion on OSCAR about the type of cannon shown here. This form, essentially a bombard in a wooden cradle, was the original form of cannon in Society armory, and therefore our default form. The bombard was intended more for blasting down walls than killing troops, so it didn't have to be moved much: it could be dragged into position and left there [Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911, vol. xx, p. 190]. Note that cannon barrels alone, as well as cannon mounted in wheeled carriages, are perfectly permissible, but must be explicitly blazoned.

    West - Returns - November 2007

    Olivia Bunny. Device. Or, a brown rabbit salient proper, a bordure vert semy of cinquefoils Or.
    A brown rabbit proper should be entirely brown; the tail of this rabbit is white. Unfortunately this is grounds for return, as was confirmed as recently as May 2007 (v. Marie Helena von Bremen).

    In Service,

    Vigdís vestfirzka
    Matins Herald

    SUBMISSONS – 13 April, XLII (2008)


    Áasa Thorvaldsdottir     (Allyshia)     New Name and New Device

    Argent a semy of musical notes and on a fess azure an otter statant Or.
    Submitter desires a female name.

    <Áasa> is from Lind's Norsk-Isländska Dopnamn column 60. That spelling is dated for 1325, 1351, and 1462.

    <Thorvaldsdottir> is from Geirr Bassi. þorvaldr is on p. 16 and the patronymic follows the formation rules from p. 17 in Geirr Bassi.

    Anne of Cloondara     (Cloondara)     New Name (see Returns for New Device & Badge)
    Submitter desires a Female name.

    <Anne> is an English given name found in Withycombe on p. 25 as the header spelling, dated to the Fourteenth Century.

    <Cloondara> is the SCA branch that the submitter resides in. Cloondara, Shire of was registered August 1985 (via the West).

    Bianca Lucia da Como     (Cloondara)     New Name and New Device
    Per pale azure and vert, a sun and on a chief Or, an ivy vine vert.
    Submitter desires a Female name and will not accept major changes.

    <Bianca> Maria Sforza - b.1472, d. 1510 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianca_Maria_Sforza) - was the daughter of Galeazzo Maria Sforza, the Duke of Milan, and Bona of Savoy. Married Emperor Maximilian I in 1493.

    <Bianca> is also in Arval Benicoeur & Talan Gwynek "Fourteenth Century Venetian Personal Names", http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14/. The article lists <Bianca> among the women's given names.

    <Lucia> is listed in the article Italian Renaissance Women's Names by Rhian Lyth of Blackmoor Vale (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/italian.html).

    <Como> is the name of a town and lake in Italy. The article at http://como.lakecomo.in states that the town has existed since moved to its current location by Julius Caesar.

    John Julius Norwich's book "A History of Venice" mentions the town of Como three times in discussing political alliances and treaties of some importance. At one point, Como signed a treaty with Venice in the early 14th century (p. 201) and was one of only two towns that remained loyal to Milan in the wars circa 1515 (p. 428).

    Como lies north of Milan, on the Swiss border. A check of the "Italia" map in Mercator's Atlas of Europe shows that <Como> is a spelling documentable to circa 1570, at least.

    Cormac MacKay     (Cloondara)     New Name (see Returns for New Device)
    Submitter desires a Male name.

    <Cormac> is the Anglicized version in Woulfe p. 178 as the header spelling. Cormac is the preferred spelling.

    <MacKay> is the Anglicized version in Woulfe on p. 319 under the header spelling of MacAoða. In Black, under the header spelling of <MacKay>, pg. 522 shows <McCay> dated between 1441 and 1450. <Mackai> dated to 1619.

    Submitter states that "<Cormac> and <Kay> are both listed in the Aberdeen Council Register dating 1500 to 1550. Mac is simply 'son of'." But did not provide copies of the documentation.

    Darren Pantyr     (Mont d'Or)     New Name
    Submitter desires a male name and will not accept MAJOR changes.

    <Darren> is the submitter's legal given name. A photocopy of his driver license is included.

    <Pantyr> is from Bahlow/Gentry on p. 400 under the header of Pantermahl. Detlev Pantyr dated to 1297.

    Emrys Coedwig     (Caer Darth)     Resubmission of New Device to Kingdom
    Per fess argent and azure, two oak trees fructed eradicated proper and a dragon displayed Or, winged argent, gorged of a collar argent.
    The device was returned at the February meeting due to the dragon not being in either a standard "displayed" or a "rampant, wings displayed", it is more in triune aspect. It was checked for conflict at the February 2008 meeting, and appears clear of conflict. In order for the dragon to be "winged and bellied argent" the entire wing needs to be argent. The top edge of the wing should be argent as well.

    Submitter has redrawn the dragon to a more standard posture and corrected the detail color problem.

    Étaín du Pommier     (Prov. Mists)     New Badge
    (Fieldless) A trefoil per saltire Or and sable.
    Submitter's name was registered March 2003.

    Fiallarr rauðulfr     (Betony Woods)     New Name and New Device
    Gules, a chevron argent between three paw prints one and two and a wolf sejant ululant Or, a bordure argent.
    Submitter desires a Male name and will not accept major changes.

    <Fiallarr> is from Lind's Norsk-Isländska Dopnamn, column 267. Fiallar Nafarszsun dated to 1374.

    <rauðulfr> means "red wolf". Submitter requested a byname meaning "red wolf", the consultation herald constructed "rauðulfr" after Geirr-bassi's "rauðrefr" (rauð + refr = red + fox) pg. 26.

    For úlfr (wolf) see: Cleasby, Richard, Gudbrand Vigfusson & William Craigie. 1993. An Icelandic-English Dictionary. Oxford University Press, Oxford.

    Gabrielle Lechesne     (Silver Desert)     New Name and New Device
    Per fess vert and or a sun and a fleur d'lys counterchanged.
    <Gabrielle> is from Dauzat p. 273 under Gabriel. Gabrielle is the feminine form of a biblical name.

    <Lechesne> (Les Chene) is from Dauzat p. 122 under the header of Chêne. The submitter has told me that "du Chesne" would be great, if that was the better name.

    Gelis of Balwery     (Crosston)     New Name and New Device
    Per pale purpure and Or, two wolves sejant respectant ululant and a pine tree eradicated counterchanged.
    Submitter desires a Female name and will not accept major changes.

    <Gelis> is a Scottish Lowland given name that was commonly used by both men and women.

    An example of the name used for a woman from the Dictionary of the Scots Language is s.v. DSL-DOST Grandame <http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/getent4.php?plen=2591&startset=20549433&query=Grandame&fhit=Gelis&dregion=q&dtext=dost#fhit> "Landis S clamit S to pertene to hir as air till vmquhile Elspeth Mailuile, hir grandeame, and Gelis Mailuile, hir grandeamis sister"; 1512.

    <Balwery> is from Black on p. 51 as a surname; "de Balwery" dated during the reign of Alexander III (1249-1286) s.n. "Balweary".

    Gerin Niemandskind     (Silver Desert)     New Name and New Device
    Gules, on an acorn argent a squirrel sable.
    <Gerin> is from Socin's Mittlehochdeutsches Namenbuch p. 634, dated to 1298.

    <Niemandskind> is from Brechenmacher v2 p. 320 Etymologische Worterbuch der Deutschen Familiennamen dated to 1374, s.n. Neimandskind.

    Jocelyn of Rowanwood     (Southern Shores)     Resubmission of New Device to Kingdom.
    Per fess vert and argent in pale two trees eradicated counterchanged.
    Submitter's name was included on the January 2008 LoI. Device was returned due to the drawing not being on the form. It was also suggested to the submitter that the roots of the tree be made longer. As originally submitted, they looked like a fringe rather than eradicated.

    Submitter has redrawn the trees to have longer roots and has submitted the drawings on the proper forms.

    Padraig Mactyre     (Dangeld Tor)     Resubmission of Device to Laurel
    Per saltire argent and vert, a wolf rampant azure sustaining a spears gules.
    Submitter's name was registered October 2007. Original device submission Checky argent and vert a wolf rampant azure maintaining a spear gules was returned for lack of identifiably of the charges. It was also noted "The spear has to be visible, and an undoubted co-primary or sustained charge, in order for this to avoid conflict with Caramanna Helmsmid, registered May 2007: Or ermined, a dog rampant azure."

    The submitter has changed the field to per saltire and increased the size of the spear to make it co-primary as a sustained charge.

    Radnor of Guildemar     (Prov. Mists)     New Badge
    Argent, a cross of ermine spots and in dexter canton a demi-sun vert.
    Submitter's name was registered July 1981. We note the badge for Claire Rosmuire St. John Argent, a cross avellane sable the center roundel gules. It was felt that there was enough visual difference between a cross of ermine spots and a cross avellane to forward on the submission to Laurel.

    Ruaidhrí Mac Diarmada     (Selveirgard)     Resubmission of Device to Laurel
    Argent, a fess nowy azure charged with a plate.
    Submitter's name was registered in July 2007.

    Device was originally submitted to Laurel on the June 2007 LoI. However, due to not all of the documentation for a "fess nowy" being included in the summary or packet, it was returned by Laurel on the October 2007 LoAR.

    Submitter has given a reworded set of documentation to be forwarded to Laurel.

    The submitter documents the use of fess nowy in the Seal of Etienne III Goyon, which can be viewed on the webpage http://www.castlelalatte.com/histoire.htm. The Arms of the Gouyon Matignon family line also include the fess nowy on the "coat of arms" page on the same website. References on the site point to these arms being born by Gouyon in the second treaty of Guerande (1381).

    Pages are also provided from a manuscript by Canlou, showing a fess nowy, and the last page of the manuscript dating it to 1566 (referenced from L'Héritage Symbolique des Hérauts D'Armes by Dr. Claire Boudreau).

    The only documentation forwarded to Laurel with the prior LoI was from the Academy of Armory by Randall Holmes, which was published in 1688, which is beyond the allowed "grey area" of the College of Arms.

    Snorri Randulfsson     (Cloondara)     New Name and New Device
    Per pale argent and vert, three crescents conjoined in pall counterchanged.
    Submitter desires a male name and will not accept MAJOR changes. Would like for his name to be authentic for Migration/Viking era.

    <Snorri> is in Geirr Bassi on p. 14.

    <Randulfsson> can be formed using <Randulff> from Lind's Norsk-Isländska Dopnamn column 865 under the header spelling of R{o,}ndólfr. Randulff dated to 1528 and Randolfs used as a possessive dated to 1383.

    Solange au Bon Coeur     (Vinhold)     New Name, New Device, New Badge
    Purpure, two besoms in saltire Or and on a chief argent, a roundel between an increscent and a descrescent purpure.
    (Fieldless) Two besoms in saltire Or.
    Submitter desires a female name and will not accept MAJOR changes. She cares most about the sound of "Solange".

    <Solange> derives from the name Solemnia, which was the name of a 9th century French martyr. (Dauzat Dictionnaire Etymologique des Noms de Famille et Prenoms de France) Submitter provides a copy of St. Gabriel report #1375 (http://www.s-gabr iel.org/1375).

    <au Bon Coeur> is documented using St. Gabriel report #1303 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/1303).


    Anne of Cloondara     (Cloondara)     Return of New Device and New Badge

    (Device) Vert, a bumblebee proper and a chief Or.
    The device is being returned due to color contrast. The bee should be drawn as Or and sable rather than sable and Or. Additionally, we suggest that the wings be drawn slightly larger.
    (Dadge) Vert, a bee volant proper and a chief Or.
    Badge must be returned, as it is identical to the submitted device.

    Christy Buchanan     (Golden Rivers)     Return of New Change of Device
    Azure, a pall between three roses argent.
    Submitter's name original device, Argent an escallop inverted and a bordure azure, seme of escallops inverted argent, was passed on the December 1991 LoAR. If new device is registered, release the old device.

    Unfortunately, this must be returned as it conflicts with the device of Catherine Ecceles Azure, a shakefork between a decrescent and two wolves sejant respectant ululant argent and the device of Ailith ferch Dafydd Azure, a pall between a Celtic cross and two unicorns combatant argent.

    Cormac MacKay     (Cloondara)     Return of New Device
    Sable, a fess checky vert and argent.
    Unfortunately, this device must be returned to a conflict with the device of William de Cameron Sable, a fess ermine.

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