Minutes of the January, 2005 Herald's Meeting

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MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 9 January xxxix (2005)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 9 January 2005, at the Holiday Inn Northeast in Sacramento. The meeting started at 9:25 am and ended at 12:20. In attendance at this meeting were: Berengaria de Montfort of Carcassonne, Vesper and Banner; Frederick of Holland, Brachet; Astrið of Swansvale, Latimer; Johanna Ludwiger von Hertesbergk, Greencloak; Antonio Giordano da Sicilia, Sable Swan; Khevron Oktavii Tikhikovich Vorotnikov, Stellanordica; Alail Horsefriend, Green Boot Pursuivant; Alison Gray of Owlwood, Acting Baldric Pursuivant; Vigdís vestfirszka, Acting Snowbound Pursuivant; Adriana Tacita, Acting Pinnacles Pursuivant; Moira O’Connor, Acting Glora Fjord Pursuivant; Morgana yr Oerfa, deputy Estoille Pursuivant; Edith de Laufare, Acting Pursuivant for Cloondara (and deputy to Seawolf); Eilis O’Boirne, Ghislaine d’Auxerre (deputy Seawolf), Harold von Rheinfelden, Marguerite de Royon, Gwynhwyfaer ferch Gwylim and Maxen ap Morgan, Pursuivants at Large; Catherine de Gray and Edward of Guildford, Pursuivants Extraordinary; Naadirah bint Ali, Mariana Silversea, Caoilinn Rose Maddox, Elinora O’Connor, Megan nic Allister of Thornwood, Anneke Grove of Scambanden (deputy to Sable Swan), Nest de Mold, Ronan MacMagnusa, and Eleanor d’Aubrecicourt, cornets; Jennet Maddox and Elysant atten Oke, guests; and Kiriana Michaelson, Matins.

The upcoming meetings are: February 13, March 6, April 10, May 8, June 5, July 17, September 11, October 16, and November 20. There will be no meetings in August and December.

The February, April and May meetings will be held at Kiriana’s -- 799 Hamann Drive, San Jose CA 95117. Directions are available on the heralds’ website. After those meetings, an assessment of where future meetings will be held will be made by Vesper and Matins and the location of future meetings will be announced.

Meetings begin at noon. Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Thursday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@mailsrv.dis.org. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.


Next Spring’s Collegium will take place on March 5 in Cynagua. The location will be at the Del Paso Heights Community Library, 920 Grand Avenue, Sacramento CA 95838. Directions will be placed on the website. Please contact Alison Grey of Owlwood, Acting Baldric Pursuivant, if you have any ideas about possible classes – either classes that you will teach or classes that you want to see taught. The Sunday meeting will be at the Rancho Cordova Public Library, 9845 Folsom Blvd., Sacramento CA 95827. The meeting will begin at 10:30 am – note the earlier time.

The Fall Collegium will be on November 19.




SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Submission fees are $8 per name, $8 per device, $8 per badge – and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $15 instead of $16. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 3 copies of the name form and documentation, 4 colored copies of the device form, and 3 colored copies of the badge form, as applicable. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following the http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins at the College address.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Frederick of Holland (Fred Hollander) at 510-653-3652.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at the home of Harold von Rheinfelden (Kevin Ellingson), 5390 Jacinto Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95823 – directions are in the May 2004 Minutes. Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym will run the meetings. You can reach her via phone: (916) 323-4268 or email: ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds’ website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism (by Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio) is available by sending $15 to Bruce Miller, 1711 Tenth Street, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266, (310) 379-1321.

The LoAR for June, which covered our February 2004 meeting, was mailed to the College of Arms in December. The LoAR for July, covered our March meeting, was received in early January. The LoAR for August, with the decisions for submissions from our April meeting, has not been published yet. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Lord Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

The following Western submissions have been registered by the College of Arms on the June LoAR:

Anne Glading. Name and device. Gules, a horse statant lozengy Or and azure within a bordure countercompony Or and azure.

Astriðr Kjartansdottir. Name.

Bjorn Jorsalfar of Bearhaven. Device change. Vert, a bear passant reguardant within a orle of chain Or.

According to the West Kingdom online order of precedence, the submitter was knighted on 3 January 2004, and is thus entitled to bear the orle of chain.

His previously registered device, Vert, a bear passant reguardant within a bordure embattled Or, is retained as a badge.

Elizabeth de Belcaire. Name.

Submitted as Elizabeth de Beaucaire, the submitter requested authenticity for 12th-14th C French, and accepted only minor changes. Metron Ariston notes that the place known today as Beaucaire withstood a siege in 1216 during the Albigensian Crusade. Given this information, Daði Ðorfinson found this placename spelled Belcaire in La Chanson de la Croisade Albigeoise, which says, in Provencal
     E pueish si s'en fugit am son caval corant
     A Belcaire, d'on era, on foron sei parant
We have changed the name to Elizabeth de Belcaire to partially comply with her request for authenticity.

The given name, Elizabeth, was documented as an English name; but there is no evidence that this is a native French form. The 13th C Old French translation of Guillame of Tyre's 11th C work, Historia rerum in partibus transmarinis gestarum, has the form Isabel; a 13th C French form of this name is Isabel de Belcaire.

Jaida of Golden Rivers. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Or, on a pale argent fimbriated vert, a peacock feather proper.

A possible conflict was called with the Middle Kingdom's badge for the Order of the Dragon's Tooth: Or, on a pale vert three fangs palewise Or. If this submission were considered as Or, on a pale vert a pale argent charged with a peacock feather proper, so there is a single CD for aggregate changes to the tertiary charges, but under the alternate blazon the peacock feather would be a quaternary charge and thus not countable for difference.

Clarion and Owen led the argument that the above interpretation only applies to alternate blazons that could legally be registered. After consideration we agree in part. The following precedent is relevant:

There is a well-established rule that one cannot blazon one's way out of a conflict. As a general rule this is true, but it should not be taken to overrule period interpretation. For example, "Argent, a fess sable" could also be blazoned as "Sable, a chief and a base argent". We would not infer therefore that "Argent, on a fess sable three eagles argent" conflicts with "Sable, in fess three eagles argent" with only one CD for the removal of the peripheral charges. Not all possible blazons are equally plausible, and implausible blazons don't necessarily result in a conflict. [Apr 1998, Acc-Calontir, Brynhildr uppsaling Grimkelsdottir]
Reblazoning this submission as a pale charged with another pale charged with a feather would not be registerable (four layers). Since the unregisterable blazon is the only blazon under which the conflict exists, this is not a conflict.

We feel it necessary to point out that when comparing items for conflict, registered armory gets greater protection than the new item under consideration. Therefore, we may consider already registered armory under alternate blazons that may have been legal in the past but are not legal today. However, that circumstance does not apply here. (See this month's Cover Letter under "From Wreath: Alternate Blazons and Conflicts" for details.)

Submitted under the name Jaida al-Rakhshandra.

The following Western submissions have been returned for further work on the June LoAR:

Genevieve de Calais. Device. Ermine, on a chevron engrailed between three Maltese crosses gules, a rose Or.

The engrailings on the chevron are too many and too small to be registerable. This was a resubmission of a device most recently returned by Laurel in June 2003. That return was for a redraw, citing identifiability problems with the ermine spots and asking for fewer and larger engrailings on the chevron. While the issue with the ermine spots appears to have been successfully addressed, the chevron on this emblazon is identical to the one returned in June 2003. Since the submitter did not address all the issues raised in the previous return, this must be returned as well.

We note that the 2003 return was itself a resubmission, having been returned by Laurel in 2002. That return was for coloration problems, but the engrailings on the 2002 chevron were significantly fewer and larger than those on the subsequent resubmissions. Replacing the chevron on the current submission with the 2002 chevron would fix the style problem with the chevron, barring introduction of other problems.

Jaida al-Rakhshandra. Name.

The byname al-Rakhshandra has several problems. First, the submitted documentation shows the spelling Rakhshanda not Rakhshandra. Second, Qazi, What's in a Muslim Name, the source for this name, lists it as an 'ism (given name). The submitter has attempted to turn it into a laqab (a type of epithet) by adding an al- in front of it , but Arabic names almost never form laqabs this way. Finally, no evidence was provided and none found that Rakshanda is a name found in period. This name is found only in Qazi, where it is shown as a modern name. Barring evidence that it is a period name, it cannot be registered.

The problems with this name illustrate the problems with using Qazi as a source: it is intended for use by those interested in forming a modern Muslim name, most of the names are undated, and at least some of the modern or undated names are unique to this source. While it may be a reasonable place to start name research, it is not a reasonable place to end it. At one time, it was a useful source because no better resources were available. However, this is no longer the case. Therefore, Qazi is longer be acceptable as adequate documentation or support for an SCA name.

His armory has been registered under the holding name Jaida of Golden Rivers.

The following Western submissions have been registered by the College of Arms on the July LoAR:

Antonio Giordano da Sicilia. Badge. (Fieldless) Two dragons combatant purpure and azure maintaining a cross formy gules.

The Admin Handbook (site) limits joint registration to two owners. As we are unable to determine which of the three names on the submission form this item should be jointly registered to it is being registered to the first name listed. If the submitters continue to wish this badge to be jointly registered they may submit an administrative request via the kingdom submissions process to add a second owner.

Byran of Edgewood Castle. Name change from Byran Ciúinchalaidh.

The submission claimed the byname under the grandfather clause as his wife's registered byname. However, no documentation of this relationship was presented beyond his statement. The October 2002 cover letter states "Support for use of the "Grandfather Clause" by family members must be included with the submission. Such support may be a letter signed by the family member with the original registration indicating the family relations, or it may be other documentation such as a birth certificate." However, Siren provided documentation supporting the byname:
Edgewood is a reasonable construction; see Edgeworth on p.160 of Ekwall for use of Edge- as a placename element meaning "by an edge or hillside" which could easily be combined with -wood. Naming a castle for its nearby village is a common practice in England --- Leeds Castle is a good example of this practice.
Therefore, the byname of Edgewood Castle is registerable independent of the grandfather clause.

His old name, Byran Ciúinchalaidh, is released.

Demetrios Doukas. Name and device. Per pale sable and vert, a double-headed eagle and a chief argent.

Gunnvaldr Skallagrimsson. Device. Per pale gules and sable, a ragged staff bendwise sinister argent budded Or.

Isabelle Parlebien. Name.

Maud verch Howell. Name change from Anna Genevieve and device change. Argent, a sheep statant and on a chief embattled sable, three triangles argent.

Her old name, Anna Genevieve, is released.

Her previously registered device, Per bend sinister sable and argent, on a bend counterchanged, two spindles palewise gules and Or, is retained as a badge.

Merewen of Lockwood. Name and device. Azure, a vol, in chief a compass star, a bordure embattled Or.

Naadirah bint 'Ali. Name and device. Bendy argent and vert, on a chief purpure three sexfoils argent.

Richenza von Augsburg. Device. Gules, a stag's head cabossed argent, a base vairy argent and sable.

Please advise the submitter to draw the base a little smaller.

Robert of Ravenshill. Name (see RETURNS for device).

The following Western submissions have been returned for further work on the July LoAR:

Robert of Ravenshill. Device. Quarterly argent and checky vert and argent, in bend two ravens rising to sinister sable.

The device violates RfS XI.3. The following precedent directly applies:
The motif Quarterly X and Y in bend two [charges] is allowable when the uncharged quarters are plain tinctures: we don't protect plain tinctures. But when the uncharged quarters are complex fields, we lose that rationale; and the complexity then begins to make it look like an independent coat. This, beneath all the subtext, is exactly what XI.3.b. is meant to prevent. [Aric Thomas Percy Raven, Oct 1992]
This armory definitely has the appearance of marshalling as shown above.

In Service,

Kiriana Michaelson

SUBMISSONS – 9 January xxxix (2005)


Donovan Synklar     (Vinhold)     New Name and Device

Argent, a bat displayed, on a chief sable, three sets of three annulets interlaced argent.
Donovan is on p.77 of O’Corrain and Maguire at Donndubán, and is given as a possible Anglicised form – the name was borne by a number of 9th and 10th c. Munster princes. Synklar is in Black under Sinclair on p.727-728, and is dated to 1529.

Gavin MacRobert     (Vinhold)     Name Registered 5/04; Device Resubmission to Laurel

Or, on a chief triangular gules, a hawk close argent.

Jaida al-Badawiyah     (Golden Rivers)     Change of Holding Name; Device Registered 6/04
Her device was registered to the holding name Jaida of Golden Rivers.

The name is taken from “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices” by Da’ud ibn Auda (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/Arabic-naming2.htm).

Oertha, Principality of      (Oertha)     Name Registered 4/82; Badge Resubmission to Laurel

(Fieldless) A compass star elongated to base quarterly azure and argent.
This badge was returned on the May LoAR for conflict with Eric Blaxton: Quarterly argent, scaly sable, and azure, a mullet of four points counterchanged azure and argent. Permission to conflict has been obtained.

Seraphina Raleigh     (Vale de Draco)     New Name; see Returns for Device
Her submitted name was Seraphine Raleigh. Seraphine is not found in any of our standard references, and no documentation was provided. Her first alternate is Seraphina Raleigh. Withycombe gives Seraphina on p.266 as the name of an early saint. Raleigh is on p.371 of Reaney and Wilson. This is a header spelling; Raleygh is dated to 1509.

Tuomas Egilsson     (Prov. Mists)     New Name and Device

Counterermine, a chief potenty argent.
Tuomas is a Finnish form of Thomas, and is found at http://sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/FinnishNamesArticle.htm. The patronymic is formed on Egill, which is on p. 9 of Bassi. The patronymic is correctly formed.


Eleanor de Lorient     (Ynys Taltraeth)     New Name and Device Returned

Per pale argent and vert, an asp glissant, (tail double-looped), and a chief dovetailed counterchanged.
Eleanor is on p.96 and 97 of Withycombe – this spelling is given as the name of Eleanor of Aquitaine. Lorient is on p.396 of Dauzat Noms de Famille and is dated to 1720. The name is also that of a place in Brittany, but no documentation could be found that the place was founded before 1600.

The asp should be redrawn in one of the standard heraldic serpent positions, and we will recommend that she choose a position that distributes the snake more evenly over the counterchange line.

Phelan ó Campbell     (Far West)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom Returned

Quarterly, gyronny or and sable and gules, a wolf’s head erased Or.
This is an appeal of a Matins return. It is not clear whether the desired name is Phelan Campbell or Phelan ó Campbell, since both are used. The device is still in violation of the SCA College of Arms rules about marshalling. Both the name and device will be returned.

Senan O’Wray of Limerick     (Winter’s Gate)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom Returned

Per saltire sable and argent, two swans naiant and two needles palewise counterchanged.
Her previous submission, under the name LaShaun O’Wray, was returned for lack of documentation of the given name. We have not yet been able to locate the original file for this submittor to determine the date of the original submission.

Senán is on p.164 of O’Corrain and Maguire as an early period name in Clare. The anglicized form drops the fada. Wray is on p.205 in McLysaght. There is no version given with the patronymic form. Limerick is a city in Ireland, but we have no documentation for the date of this spelling. The submittor wishes a female name, but the proposed given name is a male name.

The device is too similar to that registered to Senán Ó Fáeláin: Per saltire sable and argent, in pale two unicorn’s heads couped and in fess two rapiers all counterchanged.

Seraphina Raleigh     (Vale de Draco)     New Name Submitted above, New Device Returned

Per fess azure and vert, a tree blasted and eradicated Or.
The emblazon is too small by current Laurel standards – and the copies are even smaller. The tree is drawn in a non-standard and non-heraldic manner. The color copies are not standard heraldic tinctures. The device is too similar to the badge registered to Huette Aliza von und zu Åhrens und Mechthildberg: Vert, a tree blasted throughout Or and with the device of Thomas Towlewardie: Quarterly purpure and sable, a tree blasted and couped, the trunk transfixed by an arrow fesswise reversed, Or and with the badge of Thomas Towlewardie: (Fieldless) a tree blasted and couped, the trunk transfixed by an arrow fesswise reversed, Or.

Sorcha Fhionn inghean uí Ruairc     (Darkwood)     Name and Device Registered 4/02; New Badge Returned

(Fieldless) On a lozenge azure, a cat’s pawprint Or.
This submission was received with only one form, and the main charges are drawn incorrectly since cats pawprints have four toes rather than the three shown in her drawings. The first design proposed is not allowed – you cannot have a fieldless badge with a major charged charge that is a normal display of armory. Her first alternate is Azure, a cat’s pawprint Or. This is too similar to the device of Luciano Giovanni di Churburg: Purpure chape ploye Or ermined purpure, a bear’s pawprint Or. All pawprints are considered too similar to all other pawprints. Her second alternate, Azure, a bend sinister between two cat’s pawprints Or, a bordure argent, appears free of conflict.

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