Minutes of the April, 2005 Herald's Meeting

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MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 24 April xxxix (2005)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 24 April 2005, at the home of Kiriana Michaelson in San Jose. The meeting started at 12:05 pm and ended at 4:30 p.m. In attendance at this meeting were: Berengaria de Montfort of Carcassonne, Vesper; Frederick of Holland, Brachet; Eilis O’Boirne, Banner; Alail Horsefriend, Green Boot Pursuivant; Edith de Laufare, Acting Pursuivant for Cloondara and deputy to Seawolf; Adriana Tacita, Acting Pinnacles Pursuivant; Aislinn Alsop, Acting Blackmark Pursuivant; Maxen ap Morgan, Pursuivant at Large; Anora Cayce Rose, Nicodemus Radomirow and Ingrid the Fair, cornet; and Kiriana Michaelson, Matins.

The upcoming meetings are: May 22, June 12, July 17, September 11, October 16, and November 20. There will be no meetings in August and December. PLEASE NOTE that several of these dates have been changed due to date conflicts.

The May meeting will be held at Kiriana’s -- 799 Hamann Drive, San Jose CA 95117. Directions are available on the heralds’ website. After those meetings, an assessment of where future meetings will be held will be made by Vesper and Matins and the location of future meetings will be announced.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance, no later than the Thursday before the meeting. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing the paperwork for a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up. Please no walk in submissions for the March meeting as that one is a road show.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@mailsrv.dis.org. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

The Fall Collegium will be on November 19. Since the last few Collegia held in the Mists were in the Northern part of the Principality, we are looking for a new location in the Southern Mists -- although we can use the bank training center if no more desirable site is available.


SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Submission fees are $8 per name, $8 per device, $8 per badge – and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $15 instead of $16. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 3 copies of the name form and documentation, 4 colored copies of the device form, and 3 colored copies of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following the http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins at the College address.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. The previous heralds list has been eliminated from the server it was on, so everyone will have to rejoin the list. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Frederick of Holland (Fred Hollander) at 510-653-3652.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings are held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm at the home of Harold von Rheinfelden (Kevin Ellingson), 5390 Jacinto Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95823 – directions are in the May 2004 Minutes. Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym will run the meetings. You can reach her via phone: (916) 323-4268 or email: ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds’ website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism (by Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio) is available by sending $15 to Bruce Miller, 1711 Tenth Street, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266, (310) 379-1321.

The LoAR for November 2004 was published in mid-April 2005, but we have no items on it as our July meeting became an August 2004 LOI. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Lord Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

In Service,

Matins Herald

SUBMISSONS – 24 April xxxix (2005)


Antonio Giordano da Sicilia     (Golden Rivers)     Name Registered 10/01; New Badge

Argent, a cross formy gules, in chief a pearled coronet, a base sable.
The submitter is a court baron as shown on the West Kingdom Order of Precedence. He has a name and device registered; this will be his third badge.

Bjorn gullskeggr Eiriksson     (Champclair)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Azure, on a bend between two bear’s pawprints Or, a mallet gules.
His previously submitted name, Bjorn Eiriksson, was returned in 2/05 for identity with a previously-registered name. The submitter desires an authentic Norse male name and the language/culture is important to him. Bjorn is found in Bassi on p.8; gullskeggr is found in Bassi on p. 22; Eirik is found in Bassi on p. 9. The patronymic is properly formed. Adding a nickname as a middle name clears the identity problem of his previous submission.

The device submission was held pending the name resubmission and will now be sent on.

Catherine de Gray     (Golden Rivers)     Name Registered 3/03; New Badge

Azure, a Catherine’s wheel and on a chief wavy argent, three quavers sable.

Eleanor de Clermont     (Ynys Taltraeth)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Per pale argent and vert, a serpent nowed and a chief dovetailed counterchanged.
Her previous submission was as Eleanor de Lorient in 1/05; it was returned for documentation. The device was returned for redrawing because the snake was not in a standard heraldic position. Eleanor is from Withycombe, p. 46, dated to 1122. Clermont is the capital city of the County of Aurvergne, France and dates to 1035. The submitter desires a female name. We note the previous registration of Eleyne de Clermont. While both given names are ultimately derived from the given name Helen, we feel that they are sufficiently different in sound and were recognized as different names in period.

Geirdís Valsdóttir     (Crosston)     New Name; see Returns for Device
Geirdís is found in Bassi, p. 10. Valr is found in Bassi at p. 15. The patronymic is correctly formed, but was submitted as Valsdottir. We have added a fada over the “o”. The submitter will not accept major changes to her name.

Isabel de la Hay     (Selveirgard)     New Name Change
The submitter’s current name is Isabel McThomas, registered 1/04. That name will be released upon registration of the change. The submitter desires a female name. de la Hay is shown as a 13th to 14th Century Scottish surname at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/symonFreser/scottish14/scottish14_sur.html. Black (p.350 at Hay) dates de la Haye to 1296 and del Hay to 1363, so de la Hay is plausible.

Liesl Helmschmied     (Darkwood)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Argent semy of acorns, on a fess engrailed sable, a decrescent argent.
Liesel Lüder was registered 5/96; the LoAR states: “The Germanic pet name for Lise goes back at least to the late 14th century, and –el is an ancient Germanic diminutive suffix, so it seems that Liesl is period in some spelling.” Helmschmied is a header spelling on p.234 of Bahlow, who cites Conrad Helmsmid in 1338.

Richard of Alder Tree     (Teufelberg)     Name Registered 9/88; New Badge

(Fieldless) On a cross formy sable, a cross of ermine spots argent.

Richard of West Wood     (Teufelberg)     New Name
The submitter would like a 14th Century English male name that might be used by an archer of that time period. Withycombe (p.253) notes that the Normans imported the French Richard and notes that “Richard and Ricard were equally common in the Middle Ages”. Reaney DES (p.483 at Westwood) gives Robert de Westwod in 1207 and Alan de Westwude in 1221 – these are clearly related to the modern form he has submitted.

Rowan NicTiernan     (Eskalya)     New Name; See Returns for Device
The submitted name was Rowan nic Tiernan. The submitter will not accept major changes to her name and desires a female name with the sound of the submission. The submitter cites to the precedent of Francois la Flamme in the January 2002 LoAR ruling that Rowan is SCA compatible and may be registered with a weirdness as a feminine name.

<NicX> is a construction that appears in very late period Anglicized forms of the bynames of Gaelic women (at least in Scotland), where it signifies "daughter of MacX", where <MacX> is her father's (Anglicized) byname. We could find no support for the inclusion of the space, but since the submitter allows minor changes, we have removed the space and capitalized the n to put the name into proper form.

As recently as April 2003, Laurel determined <Tiernan> was "reasonable as a period Anglicized form of Tighearn{a'}n", based on evidence found in Woulfe. This evidence is first discussed in the Feb 2003 LoAR registration of Tiernan Moor <http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2003/02/03-02lar.html#81>. Thus, <MacTiernan> would be a reasonable Anglicized byname for a man, and <NicTiernan> a reasonable Anglicized byname for such a man's daughter.

Séaghdha cam shrón     (Caer Darth)     New Name; See Returns for Device
The submitter originally submitted Shaegh Cameron based on the Academy of Saint Gabriel Reports #1536 & 1698, http://www.s-gabriel.org/1536 and http://www.s-gabriel.org/1698, but these citations do not document what he submitted. Report #1698 states that the modern surname O’Shea derives from a Gaelic given name that was spelled Ségdae in the early Middle Ages and Séaghdha in the 13th and 14th centuries. Report #1536 states that the modern surname Cameron derived from the descriptive nickname cam shrón. This descriptive nickname means crooked or hook nose. Since the submitter desired a Gaelic male name meaning “hawklike bent-nose”, stated that Shaeghdha Cameron was an acceptable alternate, and allowed changes, we have altered the name to conform to the documentation.

Thorfinn the Cruel     (Southern Shores)     Change of Holding Name
The submitter’s original name of Thorfinn Magnisen was returned by Laurel in 7/92; he was given the holding name Thorfinn of Rivenoak. Thorfinn is the standard anglicization of {Thorn}orfinnr, found on page 16 of Bassi. "the Cruel" is the English translation of the ON byname greypr, found on page 22 of Bassi. The submitter makes no request for authenticity, will accept no major changes and wishes the anglicized form of the name. The submitter will not accept major changes to his name.

Viola dei Carrara     (Eskalya)     New Name and Device

Per bend argent and sable, a bend counterchanged and in sinister chief a Cross of Santiago vert.
The submission was as Viola Carrara. The submitter states that Carrara is a village near Padua and that Carrara was the surname of the lords of Padua in the 14th century and documents this from http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14/venice14sur.html#table. The submitter will accept Viola de Carrara as an alternate name and desires an authentic 14th Century Italian female name. Viola is in de Felice’s Nomi (p.353); Carrara is in de Felice’s Cognomi (p.95) as the name of lords of Padua from 1318 to 1406, and as the toponymic Carrara. The correct form would be Viola dei Carrara.

Willeam Grenetrewis     (Vinhold)     Name Registered 3/04; Device Resubmission to Laurel

Sable, on a pale vert fimbriated, a skull argent transfixed by a sword inverted proper.
His original submission was “Per pale erminois and pean, on a pale vert, a skull argent “transfixed” by a sword inverted argent, pommeled and quillioned or, gripped of brown wood proper” -- this was too similar to the device of Armand Baird: Lozengy vert and Or, on a pale vert, in pale a harp Or and a sword argent. There were also some artistic issues with the depiction of the device. This submission repairs all the problems of a previous submission.


Býúlfr Svartsson     (Selveirgard)     New Name and Device Returned

Per fess argent and azure, a bear’s pawprint sable and a compass star elongated to base argent.
The submitter cites www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.htm for the name Býúlfr Unfortunately, this website does not give dates. In Bassi, p. 8, we found the name Bjólfr, which may be the base name for the submitted name. Cleasby, which is cited by the website, does not give dates for the form submitted. Since the submitter does not allow any changes at all and submitted no alternates, we may not substitute this given name element. The submitter cites to the same website for Svartr. Svartr is found in Bassi on p. 15.

As we cannot send on the device submission without a concurrent name submission, the device must be returned. On resubmission, the submitter is requested to draw the bear’s paw with a more distinct “thumb” and more recognizable heel.

Freidrich Siebold     (Golden Rivers)     New Name and Device Returned

Per bend sinister rayonny sable and vert, in dexter chief a compass star argent.
No check was included with this submission. The submitter was called and a check requested, but no return phone call was received.

Freidrich is on p.147 and Siebold on p. 523 of Bahlow.

The device is too similar to the registered device of Andrew Greencloak Hethilsson: Per chevron argent and vert, in base a mullet of four points argent. The low-contrast field with a rayonny division, while legal, is a poor idea due to lack of clarity.

Geirdís Valsdóttir     (Crosston)     New Device Returned

Gules, a hurley stick inverted within an orle of bezants.
The submitter gave “club” as an alternate blazon, but what is drawn would not be usually blazoned as a “club” in the Society. Since this will be the defining instance of a hurley stick for registration, we will need documentation of the charge. We will recommend that the hurley stick be turned to its use position to avoid visual conflict with Michael o Glofau: Gules, a clove Or.

Hrafnsfjorðr, Shire of     (Hrafnsfjörd)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom Returned

Per fess embattled Or and sable, a raven volant proper and a laurel wreath Or.
The name was submitted as Ravensfjord in 2/04, and was not registerable because it mixed languages in a single word; the device was returned for lack of a registerable name and needed to be redrawn. The submission is accompanied by a petition of support signed by the officers of the Shire and the Coronet of the Principality of Oertha. Hrafn is Old Norse for raven. The branch desires its name (fjord with ravens) to be placed into Old Norse. The name as submitted does not match on the form, the petition, and the device submission. In addition, it seems to be incorrectly formed. The correct form would be Hrafnafjorðr. Jørn Sandnes and Ola Stemshaug's Norsk Stadnamnleksikon, 4th ed. (Oslo: Det Norske Samlaget, Oslo). s.n. <Ramfjorden> has the Norwegian place-name <Raffne fiord> 1567, which would be from ON <(H)rafnafio,rðr> "fjord of the ravens". This form may also be acceptable. However, the branch must submit petitions, name forms and device forms that all show the same name.

The embattled line on the device is (still) drawn too low for a per fess division and too high for a reclassification as a base. This line must move to the center of the field for a per fess division, or down to the bottom quarter if the branch chooses to change it to a base.

Khevron Oktavii Thikhikovich Vorotnikov      (Winters Gate)     Name Registered 11/96; Badge Resubmission to Kingdom Returned

Azure, semy of cinquefoils Or.
This badge was considered in 10/02 and returned for similarity to the device of Micheline Elphinstone: Azure, six roses two, two and two, Or. A letter of permission to conflict is enclosed.

There is a conflict with the badge of Colin Tyndall de ffrayser: Quarterly sable and gules, all semy of fraises Or.

Nia McGhille     (Vinhold)     Name and Device Resubmission to Kingdom Returned

Per pall gules, Or and sable, in chief a wolf statent argent, in dexter a wagon wheel sable and in sinister a harp Or.
The submitter’s previous submission, under the name Nia McGhill, was returned for documentation in 11/03; the device was returned at that time for the position of the wolf and for style problems.

The submitter states that Nia is an Irish name listed in the Academy of St. Gabriel report # 1853 and that Ghille are variations of a Gaelic surname appearing in Academy of St. Gabriel reports #1068 and 1148, but no copies of these reports are included. The submitter cares about having a name meaning something like “warrior servant” and suggests Nia Mac Gille, Nia Gille and Nya Guille-Anu as acceptable alternate names.

S. Gabriel report #1853, <http://www.s-gabriel.org/1853>, says: <Nia> most commonly appears in Irish as a descriptive name meaning "warrior," We found a single example of a man with the given name <Nia>, but we didn't find any evidence that <Nia> was used as a woman's name at any point in period.

The surname was more problematic. Neither S. Gabriel report #1068, <http://www.s-gabriel.org/1068> nor report #1148, <http://www.s-gabriel.org/1148>, support <McGhille> as a byname. Instead, they support a long list of other bynames in the form <mac Gille XYZ>, with no hyphen. In these bynames, the parts following <Gille> are integral parts of the names (both the bynames and the given names on which the bynames are based) and cannot be omitted.

This submission appears to be slot machine heraldry. Three different and unrelated charges are contained within the primary group. This violates the Rule VIII(1)(a) which states that three or more different charges should not be used in the same group.

Rowan nic Tiernan     (Eskalya)     New Device Returned

Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated gules.
The device is too similar to the device registered to Danaë FitzRoberts: Argent, a tree blasted and eradicated gules surmounted by a peacock close reguardant vert and with the badge of Charles of the Red Oakes: Per pale sable and argent, an oak tree eradicated and blasted gules.

Séaghdha cam shrón     (Caer Darth)     New Device Returned

Per pale rayonny ermine and vert, a boar statant to sinister sable.
The device is too similar to the badge of Godfrey of Inwood: (Fieldless) A boar statant contourney sable.

Svana i Svipjóð     (Selveirgard)     New Name and Device Returned

Per chevron embattled azure and Or, a hummingbird volant in base gules.
Svana is found on p.15 of Bassi. The submitter also cites to the Academy of Saint Gabriel, Report #1816, which states that Svana was a very rare name with one example from the early history of Iceland. At www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONNamesClass_files/slide0043.htm, it states that í Svipjóð is a locative byname meaning from Sweden. However, no dates are given on that web site. According to Cleasby, Richard and Guðbrandr Vigfusson. An Icelandic-English Dictionary. 2nd ed. Oxford: Clarendon. 1957. p. 613 s.v. <Svíþjóð>, with a þ instead of a p is the correct spelling for use in this locative. Since the submitter will accept neither major nor minor changes, we cannot add the accent mark on the i nor change the p to a thorn. We must therefore return the name. On resubmission, we will also need additional documentation for the form of the byname, since there was no documentation for the form submitted as being the period form. The device appears free of problems, but cannot be sent on without a concurrent name submission.

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