Minutes of the November, 2004 Herald's Meeting

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The West Kingdom Pursuivant Extraordinary test is back! Please contact Vesper if you have never been tested for skills assessment and want to be on the Roster!
Both the Names Mailing List and the Heralds’ Mailing List have been (unexpectedly) eliminated from the server they were on – please see below for information on how to resubscribe.



The meeting was held on Sunday, 21 November 2004, at Eilis’ house in Berkeley. The meeting started at noon and ended at 4:15 p.m. In attendance at this meeting were: Berengaria de Montfort of Carcassonne, Vesper and Banner; Frederick of Holland, Brachet; Wilhelm von Homberg, Seawolf; Alail Horsefriend, Green Boot Pursuivant (see below …); Teleri Tawel, Artist and Exchequer for the College; Walraven van Nijmegen, Nebuly Pursuivant, Felix MacAvady, Pursuivant for Sainte Katherine’s; Vigdís vestfirszka, Acting Snowbound Pursuivant; Edith de Laufare, Acting Pusuivant for Cloondara; Gwynhwyfaer ferch Gwylim and Maxen ap Morgan, Pursuivants at Large; Nest de Mold, Ronan MacMagnusa, Eleanor d’Aubrecicourt and Emma FitzWilliam, cornets; and Eilis O’Boirne, Matins and Kiriana Michaelson, Deputy Matins.

The upcoming meetings are: January 9, February 13, March 13, April 10, May 8, and June 5. There will be no December meeting. Meetings are generally held at the home of Eilis O’Boirne, 2322 Russell Street, Berkeley, CA 94705. Call for directions. Meetings start at noon.

The February, April and May meetings will be held at Kiriana’s -- 799 Hamann Drive, San Jose CA 95117. Directions will be available on the heralds’ website. After those meetings, an assessment of where future meetings will be held will be made by Vesper and Matins and the location of future meetings will be announced.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@mailsrv.dis.org. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

HERALDS’ COLLEGIUM: The Fall Heralds’ Collegium was held on Saturday, November 20. It was a great success, with 24 heralds from the Mists and Cynagua attending to learn about book heraldry, consulting, and court practices. An especially interesting exercise was the consultation practicum – ask Wilhelm about his friends from Kent!

Next Spring’s Collegium will take place on March 5 in Cynagua. Please contact Alison Grey of Owlwood, Acting Baldric Pursuivant, if you have any ideas about possible locations or classes – either classes that you will teach or classes that you want to see taught.





SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Submission fees are $8 per name, $8 per device, $8 per badge – and a name and device registered at the same time cost $15 instead of $16. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 3 copies of the name form and documentation, 4 colored copies of the device form and any documentation or petitions, and 3 colored copies of the badge form, as applicable. Required documentation includes printouts of any web pages cited – including reports from the Academy of Saint Gabriel – as well as copies of the title page and cited pages from any books that are not standard heraldic references. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following the http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins at the College address.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://www.westkingdom.org. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Frederick of Holland (Fred Hollander) at 510-653-3652.

A training and commenting meeting is being held in Cynagua to promote and encourage interest in book heraldry and raise the level of general heraldic knowledge along the eastern side of the kingdom. The meetings will be held on the second and fourth Mondays of each month at 7:00 pm. The meetings will be held at the home of Harold von Rheinfelden (Kevin Ellingson), 5390 Jacinto Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95823 – directions are in the May 2004 Minutes. Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym will run the meetings. You can reach her via phone: (916) 323-4268 or email: ginni.morgan@doj.ca.gov.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds’ website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism (by Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio) is available by sending $15 to Bruce Miller, 1711 Tenth Street, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266, (310) 379-1321.

The LoAR for May, which covered our January 2004 meeting, was mailed to the College of Arms in late October. The LoAR for June, which will include our February meeting, has not been published yet. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

The following Western submissions have been registered by the College of Arms:

Gavin MacRobert. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Giana Vettoria Colonna. Name.

The submitter requested authenticity for 12th-14th C Italy and accepted only minor changes. Double given names just started to come into use in the 14th C in Italy. While this name is registerable, the name would be a much better re-creation if only one given name were used.

Joan la Harper. Name and device. Per pale vert and purpure, on a chief indented argent three harps vert.

The submitter requested authenticity for 12th C England. Submitted as Joan the Harper, we have changed the name to Joan la Harper to fulfill this request. In 12th C English, la would be the article generally used in a woman's occupational byname.

Moira O'Connor. Name and device. Per pale vert and sable, two pegasi combatant argent.

The given name Moira (which may be viewed as either Scots or Anglicized Irish) has been ruled SCA compatible

Ragnsteinn frá Andréssmýri. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Turold of Normandy. Reblazon of badge. Purpure, a New World pineapple Or leaved vert.

Originally registered in February 1983 as Purpure, a pineapple Or, leaved vert, this contains the first (and up to this month, the only) registration of the pineapple (the fruit) as a charge in the SCA. However, these are a New World fruit, and the term "pine(-)apple" has often been used in period (non-SCA) blazon to mean the charge which the SCA blazons as a "pine cone." To minimize the possibility of confusion we will no longer use the term "pineapple" unmodified. We will hereafter blazon the fruit as a "New World pineapple" and continue to use the term "pine cone" to refer to the seed cases of coniferous trees. We are reblazoning Turold's badge to conform with this decision.

William MacDougall. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Submitted as William Alexander MacDougall, the submitter requested authenticity for 13th-14th C Scottish language/culture. As we have no evidence for the use of double given names in Scots, we have dropped the second given name, Alexander, to fulfill this request.

The following Western submissions have been returned for further work:

Gavin MacRobert. Device. Or, on a chief triangular gules a hawk close argent.

The actual form is too small: the height of the emblazon is much smaller than the 6-inch standard given in the Administrative Handbook.

In addition, the "chief triangular" extends down to the center point of the shield; it is not a chief triangular but the top compartment of a per saltire field division. This has long been cause for return:

(Returning Argent, on a chauseé azure an aeolius argent, a laurel wreath vert where the field division started in the top corners and extended to the center point of the shield) The field is not really chaussé; it is not per chevron inverted, it is not a pile, it is not a chief triangular; being somewhere between all of these, we really don't know what it is. Chaussé issues from the corners of the chief and would touch the base point of the shield; per chevron inverted would issue from the sides of the field (rather than the chief corners); a pile would issue from farther in on the chief (rather [than] from the corners) and would almost touch the base point of the shield and would not have room for a charge beneath it; and a chief triangular would not descend the field nearly so far as the one here does. Please have them choose one and reemblazon it properly. (The device was returned for this problem alone) [Oct 1990, Ret-Trimaris, Storm, Shire of the]
This has been reaffirmed by every Laurel since then, and we reaffirm it now.

While the miniature emblazon on the Letter of Intent more clearly shows a chief triangular, it is the full-size emblazon that we consider for registration. Also, significant discrepancies between the miniature and full-size emblazons are cause for administrative return, and such is the case here.

Mikha'il al-Tayyib ibn Khalid ibn Ahmad al-Tayyib al-Gharnatii. Name.

al-Jamal notes that "as a general rule, Arabic places the bynames (like al-Tayyib) at the end of the name, unless such are being used as an 'ism, a given name, which is not the case here.". The submitter will not accept major changes, so this name must be returned. In resubmitting, we suggest the form Mikha'il ibn Khalid ibn Ahmad al-Gharnatii al-Tayyib.

Oertha, Principality of. Badge. (Fieldless) A compass star elongated to base quarterly azure and argent.

This conflicts with Eric Blaxton: Quarterly argent, scaly sable, and azure, a mullet of four points counterchanged azure and argent. There is one CD for the field, but none for type between a mullet of four points and a compass star:
[a mullet of four points elongated to base vs. a compass star] There is no difference between a mullet of four points and a compass star per the LoAR of January 2001: "As neither a compass star nor a mullet of four points are period charges, and they differ only by the addition of the lesser points, there is not a CD between a mullet of four points and a compass star." There is also no difference for the slight artistic variant in elongating the bottom point of a mullet. [May 2003, Ret-Atenveldt, Catherine Diana de Chambéry]

[(Fieldless) A mullet sable] ... in conflict with ... A mullet of five greater and five lesser points distilling goutes. As with the mullet of four vs. a compass star (see the June 1995 LoAR, pg. 23), the lesser points of the mullet have very little visual impact, and as mullets of greater and lesser points are not known in period, the visual difference counts. This reaffirms the precedent set in July 1990 (pg. 13). [May 2000, Ret-Atlantia, Chirhart Blackstar]

[a compass star vs a mullet of four points] The overwhelming visual similarities between a mullet of four points and a mullet of four greater and four lesser points/compass star, both of which are non-period charges, mandates against granting a ... CD for this relatively minor difference. [Jun 1995, Ret-Atenveldt, Raffaelle de Mallorca]

The tincture of Eric's mullet is quarterly azure and argent, which matches the tincture of this submission's compass star. Therefore there is no CD for tincture, leaving just the CD for the field.

Ragnsteinn frá Andréssmýri. Device. Gules, two battleaxes in saltire Or hafted of wood proper, a chief wavy checky Or and azure.

This is being returned for unidentifiability of the axes against the field. RfS VIII.3 (Armorial Identifiability) is relevant: "Identifiable elements may be rendered unidentifiable by ... marginal contrast ..." While the most important part of an axe is the head, and these heads have good contrast with the field, the brown wood of the handles all but disappears against the gules field at any distance. As these hafts constitute a significant part of the charge, they must have enough contrast against the field to be identifiable, and they do not.

William MacDougall. Device. Per pale argent and sable, two chevronels counterchanged and in canton a thistle proper.

The actual form is too small: the height of the emblazon is much smaller than the 6-inch standard given in the Administrative Handbook.

In Service,

Eilis O'Boirne

SUBMISSONS – 21 November xxxix (2004)


Aelesia Marschal     (Tarnmist)     Name Resubmission to Kingdom
Her previous submission of Elisabeth Marschal was returned in September 2004 for being too similar to the registered name of Elisabet Marshall. The given name is cited to 1219 on p.15-16 of Withycombe at Alice. Marschal is cited to 1296 on p.30 of Reaney at Marshall.

Baldewyne ap Radnor     (Prov. Mists)     New Name and Device; New Badge Returned Below

Sable, a bezant winged of four wings set saltirewise ermine.
Baldewyne is meant to be a Welsh form of Baldwin, and is found on p.49 of Morgan & Morgan at Baldwin. Withycombe dates this form to 1273 (p.40 at Baldwin). While Radnor is actually an English form of a place in Wales (and a breed of sheep), it is the registered name of his SCA knight/father figure, Radnor of Guildemar. He wishes his name to mean “son of Radnor”; his listed alternates are Baldewyne Radnorsson and Baldewyne Blackhawk.

We feel that a roundel winged of four wings will have wings default to this orientation.

Bella Brandi     (Southern Shores)     Name Submitted to Laurel 10/04; Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Sable, in base two frogs in fess salient argent, in canton a mullet within a increscent Or.
Her previous submission was returned 10/04 for redrawing.

Bragi Knutson     (Allyshia)     Name Registered 12/03; Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Per pale purpure and argent, on a pile counterchanged a bird migrant per pale sable and argent.
His previous submission was returned 10/04 for redrawing.

Caterina di Guglielmo     (Montagne du Roi)     New Name and Device

Vert, a Catherine’s wheel Or, a ford proper.
The submittor wishes an authentic Italian name and will not accept major changes. The given name is on p.102 of DeFelice Nomi; the surname is on p.144 of DeFelice Cognomi.

Edith de Laufare     (Prov. Mists)     Name and Device Registered 02/03; New Badge

Ermine, a hart trippant purpure.

Edward Falconer of York     (Champclair)     New Name and Device

Per chevron embattled sable and Or, three hawk’s bells inverted and a falcon volant to dexter base counterchanged.
The given name can be found on p.94-95 of Withycombe, and is found in 12th century records. The surname is on p.161 of Reaney and Wilson as a header, but this form is not dated. York is an undated header spelling in Ekwall (p.545). His first choice of name, Edward Hawk of York, was presumptuous – Edward IV was a Yorkist king who had a falcon as a badge. This is his first alternate. The meaning (having to do with falconry) is important; the submittor also has another alternate: Edward the Gos; he wishes an authentic name for late 14th-early 15th century.

Egen Bräuer     (Golden Rivers)     New Change of Registered Name; Name and Device Registered 07/95
His current name, Sean mac Aodha ui Conghaile, will be released when this name is registered. He will retain his registered device of Per fess vert and argent, three urchins counterchanged.

The given name is on p. 64 of Bahlow’s German Names (revised English translation) as a header. The spelling is dated to 1578 in the name Valentin Egen. Bräuer is a header form on p.202 of Brechenmacher and is dated in this spelling to 1271.

Griffin Garret     (Wintersgate)     Name Registered 12/03; Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Quarterly gules and sable, in bend two griffins segreant Or.
His previous submission was returned in July 2003 for similarity to a registered device.

Heinrich von Melk     (Canale)     Name Submitted 05/03; Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Per chevron raguly sable and argent, three eagle’s heads couped counterchanged.
His previous submission, with two eagle’s heads and an eagle displayed, was returned for conflict in July 2004. This device is similar in concept to that of his knight, Gemini de Grendel: Per chevron raguly sable and argent, two death’s heads and a Roman numeral II counterchanged. We feel that there is complete difference of charge between an eagle’s head and a death’s head.

Helena of Heathcote     (Crosston)     Release of Name and Device

Argent, a heathcock close within a bordure purpure.
The name and device were registered in November 1987. The submittor wishes to release both.

Ruarc Ó Faoláin     (Danegeld Tor)     New Name; see Returns for New Device
The submittor cites www.namenerds.com/irish/trad.html as the source for the name. Ruarc is the late (post-12th-century) form of Ruarcc on p.158 of O’Corrain and Maguire; Faolán is the late form of Fáelán on p.92. We have added a fada to the “O” and believe we have put the byname into the correct genitive form. The submittor wants an authentic name for the Irish time period and language/culture.

Shantala Amman     (Hrafnsfjörðr)     New Name and Device

Argent, on a bend between two serpents erect respectant, tails nowed, purpure, three lotus blossoms in profile argent.
The primary element of this name is found at http://www.tremplenet.com/Karnataka/beluarti.html in the compound given form Shantaladevi – the name of King Vishnuvardhana’s senior queen. (He ruled in the early 12th century.) Amman is found at Tangwystl’s Women’s Names from (Mostly) 16th Century Inscriptions of Tirupati (India) (www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/tirupati_f.html) as a secondary element. The primary and secondary elements seem to be run together to give one-word names – we feel that it is viable to separate them for SCA purposes. The submittor will accept the alternates Shanta devi, Shantala vati or Shantala vai; she wishes a name authentic for 12th – 15th century South India/Hindi.

Veronica da Lugano     (Tarnmist)     Name Submitted to Laurel 07/04; Device Resubmission to Kingdom

Azure, in pale three gars naiant Or, an orle argent.

West, Kingdom of     (West)     Name and Device Registered 01/73; New Herald’s Title
Title for Sejant Wolf Pursuivant, to be used by the Principality of Oertha. The sejant wolf is a charge from the principality arms.

West, Kingdom of     (West)     Name and Device Registered 01/73; New Herald’s Title Title for Point Dexter Pursuivant, to be used by the Principality of Oertha.


Baldewyne ap Radnor     (Prov. Mists)     Name Submitted Above; New Badge Returned

Sable, a bezant winged of four wings set saltirewise ermine.
This is identical to the device submitted above. There must be some difference between a device and a badge.

Helga allrasyster     (Rivenoak)     New Name and Device Returned

Gyronny argent and gules, a horse’s head couped on the bend sinister line sable, a bordure sable platy.
The submittor cites Bassi for both names – Helga is on p.11; allrasystir is on p.19 and means “everyone’s sister”. The byname is spelled incorrectly in her submission. Only one copy of each form has been sent; no money was enclosed. In addition, the horse’s head needs to be drawn without exaggerated internal details and without the complex curve on the bottom.

Niall Piperson     (St. Katherine)     New Name and Device Returned

Quarterly azure and Or, an eye argent.
Niall is in Black, p.628, at Niallgus, and is also on p.145 of O’Corrain and Maguire – both sources cite this as the name of several early (8th-10th century) Irish kings. Piperson is on p.663 of Black at Piper, given as Pyperson and dated to 1672. We cannot document the byname to period, so we will ask the submittor to provide additional information.

The eye is drawn in a modern outline style; we will request that it be redrawn in a less-stylized, more heraldic manner.

Ruarc Ó Faoláin     (Danegeld Tor)     Name Submitted Above; New Device Returned

Sable, a fox’s mask argent, a bordure wavy argent semy of oak leaves vert.
The device is being returned for redrawing – the leaves are not depicted as a correct semy, but are drawn following the bordure and turned top to bottom symmetrically.

Vlad the Wanderer     (Hrafnsfjörðr)     New Name and Device Returned

Per bend gules and sable, a spider affronty (in trian aspect) argent.
The submittor will not accept major changes; he will accept the alternates Laszlo á Vanderoló or Vladislav the Wanderer; he wishes a name authentic for 15th century Romanian (or, alternately. 15th century Hungarian). He documents Vlad from Names from the Royal Lines of Moldavia and Wallachia by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/Romanian.html). The byname is English and descriptive. Recent Laurel precedent has stated that an English descriptive can no longer be combined with a Central European given name unless the English byname is a direct translation of a byname used in period in that language, so this name must be returned.

The device is being returned because the spider is drawn in trian aspect – the heraldic way of saying “drawn in 3-D”. It is also too similar to the device registered to Isabella Agnes van Lichtervelde: Per chevron vert and purpure, a spider argent.

West, Kingdom of     (West)     Name and Device Registered 01/73; New Badge Returned

Or, a demi-sun vert debruised by a rapier inverted sable.
The Crown, Seneschal and Herald have signed a petition for this badge for the Royal Guild of Defense to be in visual conflict with the populace badge for the West. However, while the demi-sun is clearly identifiable, the rapier cannot be identified as a rapier and must be returned because the charge cannot be clearly identified. In addition, the sun was colored a very light green and the center point of the sun was drawn artificially small – if it had been drawn correctly, the rapier would be even less identifiable.

In addition, there may be a visual similarity to the badge of Kathryn Lavendar of Lesbos: Or, a lavender plant in bloom stalked and leaved proper surmounted by a sword sable.

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