Minutes of the October, 2003 Herald's Meeting

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The Heralds’ Collegium in November will feature more advanced classes in book heraldry, onomastics, and court heraldry. Be sure to attend.

MINUTES OF THE MONTHLY MEETING – 19 October xxxvii (2003)

The meeting was held on Sunday, 19 October 2003, at the home of Eilis O’Boirne. The meeting started at 12:15 pm and ended at 1:15 pm. In attendance at this meeting were: Gaius M.L. Auklandus, Vesper; Frederick of Holland, Brachet; Wilhelm von Homburg, Seawolf; Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasfryn, Harpy Herald; Teleri Tawel, Pursuivant for Crosston and Exchequer for the College; Walraven von Nijmegen, Nebuly Pursuivant; Maxen Dawel ap Morgan, PaL; Neassa mhic Cathasaigh, PE at Large; Edith de Laufare, Emma FitzWilliam and Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald, cornets; and Eilis O’Boirne, Matins.

The upcoming meetings are: November 16, January 4, February 8, March 7, April 11, May 9, and June 6. Meetings are generally held at the home of Eilis O’Boirne, 2322 Russell Street, Berkeley, CA 94705. Call for directions. Meetings start at noon. There is no meeting scheduled for December 2003.

Anyone who is bringing a walk-in submission should contact Matins in advance. This is especially important if the submitter has previous submissions, since the files are stored in a remote location. If you are bringing a submission to a meeting, please plan to arrive by 11:00 am to allow the file to be set up.

We are researching some of the name submissions beforehand through an email list, wknames@mailsrv.dis.org. This list is open by request to heralds in the West Kingdom who are interested in onomastic (name) research. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

Since there was no interest expressed in voice instruction at the monthly meetings, it is being discontinued as a regular feature. If interest is expressed in the future, it will probably be offered again.

HERALDS’ COLLEGIUM: The Fall Heralds' Collegium will happen November 15,at the Mechanics Bank Operations Center, 725 Alfred Nobel Drive in Hercules (near Pinole and Vallejo). The meeting on the following day will be at Eilis’ in Berkeley. (This is the place we were going to have the Collegium last year but ended up moving due to PG&E's construction outside the building.)

The theme for the Fall collegium this year is, as is usual for Fall Collegia, Armory, Onomastics, and Court. We've had a number of basic classes in the last couple of years, so this Collegium is going to be more intermediate level.


Remember that this is a secure building. Once you are parked, walk through the courtyard to the big double doors. The Security Guard will let you in.

There will be a lunch potluck at the site (main dish provided -- refrigerator, microwave and stove available) – over lunch there will be a discussion of interest to heralds. An organized restaurant visit for dinner in Berkeley (Blue Nile, anyone?), and a court for the Kingdom of the South at the evening revel, will follow. Directions to the revel will be available at the event.

The Spring Heralds’ Collegium will be held March 6, the day before the March heralds’ meeting. We would like to hold it in Cynagua – if you know of a site, please contact Duchess Letitia, Baldric.


SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS: Until the Twelfth Night heralds’ meeting, submission fees are $8 per name, $8 per device, $8 per badge – and a name and device registered at the same time will cost $15 instead of $16. There is no fee for resubmission of a returned item. Submissions require 3 copies of the name form and documentation, 4 colored copies of the device form, and 3 colored copies of the badge form, as applicable. The submission forms for the West Kingdom College are now available from Matins or the Kingdom consultation table or by following the http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Register.htm#Forms. Completed forms should be sent to Matins at the College address.

MAILING LIST: The West Kingdom College of Heralds has a mailing list for internal communication. Any herald is welcome to join by request. To join the list, please contact Felix MacAvady at ha.raschid@sinewave.com.

ELECTRONIC RESOURCES: Many interesting heraldic links can be found through the SCA Heraldry web page at http://www.sca.org/heraldry, including the Laurel home page, the on-line Armorial and Ordinary (with search capabilities) and The Academy of St. Gabriel (an onomastic and heraldic consultation service). The West Kingdom Heraldry site and the West Kingdom Awards List can be accessed through the West Kingdom site, http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Awards. Heraldic queries may also be addressed to Eilis at heralds@westkingdom.org -- answers may take a few days.

These meetings comment on heraldic submissions from other Kingdoms. Please consider attending – you do not have to be able to attend every week. They are a fast way to learn how the Rules of Submission work and how to research armory. The Brachet meetings are in Berkeley on Wednesday nights. If you are interested, contact the Brachet Herald, Frederick of Holland (Fred Hollander) at 510-653-3652.

Cynaguan commenting meetings are starting up in Golden Rivers at the home of Antonio Giordano da Sicilia. The schedule is the 2nd and 4th Mondays of each month, 6:30 - 9:30 pm.  (1024 42nd Street; house is at the intersection of 42nd and J Streets; third house from the SW corner -- on the west side of the street). For additional information, contact the Sable Swan Herald.

West Kingdom College of Heralds Minutes are published on the web. They may be read at or printed from the heralds’ website at http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Minutes.htm. There is a colored version and a printer-friendly black and white version available.

The latest edition of the Armorial and Ordinary, along with updates for the previous editions, are available from Free Trumpet Press West along with other useful heraldic publications. Write for a free price list. The address is Free Trumpet Press West, 1613 N. School St. Normal, IL 61761-1240.

A Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry as Used in the Society for Creative Anachronism (by Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio) is available by sending $15 to Bruce Miller, 1711 Tenth Street, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266, (310) 379-1321.

The LoARs for July has just been published. The cover letters, acceptances and returns for the past can be found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/. If you are interested in responding to some of the calls for commentary put out by Lord Laurel, please be sure to visit the site.

July LoAR: These were the Western acceptances (from our March meeting):

Agnarr Þorvaldsson. Device. Per pale azure and sable, two bearded axes in saltire surmounted by an arrow inverted Or.

Dauid ap Morgant Dinefwr. Name and device. Quarterly Or and sable, in bend two griffins gules.

Jean de Leedes. Device. Azure, a wolfhound rampant argent and a chief embattled ermine.

On the first viewing of the submission form, the Wreath meeting attendees had a lively discussion about whether the ermine spots were too small to be identified. While there were strong adherents to both sides of this question, the consensus was that the ermine spots were sufficiently identifiable, especially because, for the most part, the ermine spots were neither obscuring, nor obscured by, other elements of the design.

We were suprised at the lack of commentary on the identifiability issue, and (on inspection of the Letter of Intent) found that there was a notable discrepancy between the depiction of the ermine chief in the full-sized emblazon and in the mini-emblazon. The mini-emblazon drew the embattled chief with two rows of five ermine spots each, with the lower line "offset" so that each ermine spot is centered in the space between the two ermine spots above it. However, the full-sized emblazon had twice as many rows and almost twice as many ermine spots per row (except for the bottom row, which had just as many spots, as it only had one spot per embattlement). It was no surprise that the issue with the identifiability of the ermine spots was not raised in the commentary - the identifiability issue did not even begin to arise on the mini-emblazon.

As a period artistic note, the depiction in the mini-emblazon is very much in keeping with period armorial depictions both of ermine chiefs and of the portion of an ermine field showing over the top of a fess. The majority of depictions which Wreath staff was able to find on a short research mission show two rows of (offset) ermine spots with 4-7 spots per row. We were not able to find (nor were we were presented with evidence for) a depiction of a period ermine chief with more than three rows of ermine spots on it. We will note that ermine spots are often packed more densely on some other types of armorial elements, such as ermine beasts and ermine fretty (where the complex outline of the beast and the narrow lathes of the fretty encourage the depiction of small and numerous ermine spots).

This submission has failed to strictly comply with the requirement in the Administrative Handbook that "An accurate representation of each piece of submitted armory shall be included on the letter of intent." Certainly, the College was unable to adequately comment on the issue of whether the ermine spots were drawn identifiably. We thus had to seriously consider whether the administrative handbook required the return of this submission. Because the Wreath meeting was able to reach a general consensus that the ermine spots in the full-sized emblazon were, in fact, identifiable, we were willing to recommend registration if Laurel allowed it (which he has).

However, we advise the submitter and the Kingdom College of Heralds to ensure that the mini-emblazon is a good rendition of the full-sized emblazon. We remind the Kingdom College that a significant discrepancy between the full-sized emblazon and the mini-emblazon can be cause for return, particularly if the depiction on the mini-emblazon masks a style problem on the full-sized emblazon.

Megen Winterford. Name and device. Azure crusilly fleury, a saltire engrailed argent.

Nice device!
Robin Rosewood. Name and device. Purpure, a rose argent barbed and seeded proper and on a chief invected argent three hearts gules.
Submitted as Robin of the Rosewood, Rosewood was documented as a placename rather than as a general toponymic. Therefore, of the Rosewood is no more plausible than of the London. This name is registerable as Robin of Rosewood or as Robin Rosewood. The submitter noted Robin Rosewood as a preferred alternate if Robin of the Rosewood was not registerable. Therefore, we have changed this name to Robin Rosewood in order to register this name.
Uther Schiemann der Hunt. Badge. Gules, between the arms of a capital lambda a demi-sun Or all within a bordure argent.

There were NO Western returns!

In Service,

Eilis O'Boirne

SUBMISSONS – 19 October xxxvii (2003)


Corrections to the September 25 LoI:

11. Rhys Gethin: The Archangel Michael is actually argent. The corrected blazon is “Vert semy-de-lys Or, the Archangel Michael argent, haloed Or.”

14. West, Kingdom of the: The actual spelling which we wish to submit is “Chequy”, not “Chequey” as given in the LoI. The submission should be for “Chequy Herald”.


Danaë FitzRoberts     (Golden Rivers)     Name and Device Registered 3/98; New Badge

Azure, a friendly castle issuant from base argent, a bordure argent mullety of eight points vert.

Dregel Alewulf     (Mont d’Or)     Name Registered 7/92, Device Registered 10/92; New Badge

Quarterly sable and gules, a wolf’s head erased contourny argent.

Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald     (Crosston)     Name Registered 6/01; Alternate Name and New Device

Ermine, a cross formy and a chief gules.
The name she wishes to register is Effe Men3eis. The name is lowland Scots -- the given name spelling Effe and the surname spelling Men3eis are found in the second and first entries, respectively, for 14 December 1545 on page 574 of volume 18 of the manuscript Aberdeen Council Register. Copies of the manuscript, transcription, and translation are being sent to Laurel.

Elsa Saxenkammer     (Prov. Mists)     New Name and Device

Purpure, on a pale doubly endorsed argent, three ducks naiant purpure.
Elsa is from Brechenmacher, v.I, p. 401, heading Elsensohn, and is dated as a given name to 1350. Saxenkammer is also from Brechenmacher, v.II, p. 476, and is dated in the spelling Sachssenkamer as a surname to 1390. This is the header form.

The original device submission, Purpure, on a pale endorsed argent, three ducks naiant purpure, is too similar to the device registered to Luerann Damask: Purpure, on a pale endorsed argent, three roses azure barbed and seeded proper.

Geoffrey Scott     (Crosston)     Name and Device Registered 8/95; New Badge

(Fieldless) On a heart purpure, a compass star Or.
This badge is to be jointly owned with Catherine of Wessex (name registered 8/91 through Ansteorra).

Marguerite du Royon     (Ecorngill)     Name and Device Registered 1/02, New Badge

(Fieldless) On a tower azure, a fleur-de-lys Or.
This badge is to be jointly owned with Brian FitzWilliam of Glastonbury (name registered 2/01).


Henri de Valery sur Somme     (Golden Rivers)     Name Submitted 9/03, New Device Returned

Per bend argent and azure, a Maltese cross counterchanged.
The device is in conflict with the device registered to Dianne de Winchelsea: Per bend argent and azure, a Maltese cross with a bordure counterchanged. There is only one point, for the addition of the bordure. His alternates could not be implemented since they were not specific enough.

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